Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 30th, 2020

[Gideon Christian]

Initially there was the lottery system. As I pointed out, the lottery system was replaced with what we jocularly refer to as “the fastest finger process”, whereby the fastest person to file the application will be selected.

Later on, the whole process was frozen, earlier this year. We were hoping that at least something better was coming up. When the announcement was made, it seemed we had returned to the same lottery system.

The problem with the lottery system is that you may have a situation in which an individual will never be able to sponsor their parent if they are not fortunate enough to be picked up in that system. There is no guarantee, no matter how hard you work, that you may be able to sponsor your parents, except if you randomly, by chance, get selected.

That's the process with this random system. We're looking at a situation whereby people who have played this lottery system over a period of time, at least—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, Mr. Christian. Your time is up.

We will now move to Mr. Regan.

You have five minutes for your round of questioning.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Allow me to thank the witnesses for coming today and for their testimony.

Ms. Go, you previously appeared at another committee this summer in which you outlined recommendations for the government when developing measures for people possibly coming from Hong Kong. These included providing more temporary resident permits, work and study permits and options for permanent residence for people from Hong Kong.

The government has presented a new list of pathways to support Hong Kong residents who want to study, work or live permanently in Canada. These new measures specifically include faster processing of work and study permits, new parameters for the post-graduation work program, and helping families stay together through spousal and dependent work and study permits. It also included two new pathways to permanent residency.

Do you find these new measures helpful? Do they respond to your recommendations?

[Avvy Yao-Yao Go]

They respond in part to our recommendations but not to all of them. It depends on the situation of those individuals. They may or may not fit into the announcement that was made on November 12.

Also, certainly the situations of a lot of the people we are aware of who are now stranded in places like Taiwan and the U.K. are just as dire as those who are left in Hong Kong. Some of them may or may not be able to come in through the various measures the government has currently put in place.

That's why we also want to push for a more temporary resident permit-type program, because usually it's not tied to any specific criteria. Potentially more people would qualify for a temporary resident permit as well.

On top of that, we also think there needs to be a way of helping people leave Hong Kong. The piece that is really missing, as Ms. Kwan has mentioned, is how you help people leave Hong Kong. I understand the government may not be able to address that publicly, but certainly we at least share that kind of information with the people who are connected to the Hong Kong activists right now.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

As I understand it, Ms. Go, the list of new pathways provided by the government is designed to enhance and increase the promotion of existing programs of pathways for Hong Kong residents looking to come to Canada. Also, the new measures have been created in part to reinforce existing trends being used by people of Hong Kong but also to allow additional pathways to permanent residency.

I'd like to ask Ms. Go and Mr. Christian what improvements to the current plan they would like to see?

[Avvy Yao-Yao Go]

Sir, just for Hong Kong people, again, I think that, for instance, it would be to remove some of the requirements around the education or the language, or at least lower them so more people can benefit from them. Why have open work permits for three years that only people with a university degree can apply for? Those people, among all the activists, have the most options elsewhere. I think that would be number one.

Again, because it's after three years, it's unclear to me what the pathway to permanent residency would be. We still haven't seen the actual applications, so we don't know exactly what criteria would be used at the end of the three years. Whether or not people will be able to stay in Canada after three years, we still don't know.

I think just having a temporary resident permit for more people with lower requirements would provide more stability for the people who choose to come here, and it would expand the groups that can come here.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Mr. Christian, I only have about 30 seconds, if you wouldn't mind answering the same question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

You have 50 seconds.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you.

You're muted, sir.

[Gideon Christian]

I was having some sound problems. Can you please ask the question again?

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

I was asking about ways to improve the current plan in relation to Hong Kong in particular.

[Gideon Christian]

I think one way to do that would be to provide pathways for individuals there to be able to travel to Canada and gain a status in Canada, whether as students or temporary workers. At least create the paths to permanent residency for them, whichever pathway brings them to Canada, so that they can remain in Canada permanently and then contribute to the economy here.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you.

We will now move to Madam Normandin.

You have two and a half minutes.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I'm going to direct my questions to Mr. Boucher

I'd like to hear what you have to say about the possibility of lowering barriers for access to francization, in particular by not requiring a study permit or by making it easier to obtain a study permit sooner.

Do you have any good recommendations to make to ensure that francization goes forward?

[Yannick Boucher]

With regard to francization, earlier we were talking about people from francophone Africa. I think it's really important to facilitate access to Canada for these people. It's extremely limited. I'd say that could be done by granting scholarships, for example, for people from the francophone world in general, but from francophone Africa in particular. There are ways to select people who already speak French but who achieve a level of francization that enables them to fit into a different culture. Learning a language also means learning about culture. We all agree on that. That's a recommendation on francization that I think is extremely important.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Perfect.

As regards delays, you mentioned the stress the process causes in immigrants. I'd like to hear you speak in general terms.

Can you make a direct connection between the challenges, the slow processing and the ability of newcomers to integrate? Do you think any one of those has a direct impact on the others?

[Yannick Boucher]

That's obvious.

We see it. Administrative procedures monopolize the mind. Talking about mental load, for example, this is an enormous mental load for immigrants. All this energy is spent on completing administrative procedures instead of on the right things, such as learning more about the society, fitting in and looking for a job. So we see this mental load weighing on the people we see every day, and it clearly stresses them.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

So you can readily say that having to complete IRCC paperwork uses up energy that could otherwise be directed to francization, looking for a job, socialization and integration.

Is that correct?

[Yannick Boucher]

Absolutely.

It takes up an enormous amount of time and energy. It's an energy-consuming process.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Perfect.

Thank you very much.

I don't think I have enough time left to ask another question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, Madam Normandin, but your time is up.

We will now move to Ms. Kwan.

You have two and a half minutes for your round of questioning.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to touch on the issue around the reunification of parents and grandparents. The sponsorship, as we know, is now subject to the luck of the draw.

Ms. Go, you mentioned that this is the only stream, and you are absolutely correct, that is based on a lottery. This is also the stream that has run into problems for years and years and years now.

What do you think the government should do once and for all so that we can actually deal with the reunification of parents and grandparents in the proper way?

[Avvy Yao-Yao Go]

Once and for all get rid of the lottery system and just let people apply, just like with any other stream, and get rid of the quota. Then start putting in the resources that are needed to process the applications. What happened in the past—and this was used by the previous government as an excuse to introduce the quota system—is that there were very many applications and it created a backlog when they were not being processed in a timely manner. We only had a backlog because the government was not spending the resources to process these cases, as we do for other types of applications, including spousal applications or independent applications.

I think there should be equitable distribution of resources among the different types of immigration categories. Even within the category of family class there should be equitable resources.

I remember years ago appearing before a standing committee during a different government, during a different time. I was asked whether I should choose between my husband or my father, and which one is more important to me. I tried to explain that I could not choose because they were equally important. I wasn't even married at the time, and I'm still not married.

In our culture, father and husband, spouse, are equally important. I think that's the problem with the current system. It assigns more weight to a spouse than to a parent because it fits more into the western nuclear family model. With more and more people, racialized people in particular from different cultures, we can no longer make that assumption. The only fair and equitable way is to treat all family immigration the same.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

I have a quick question on international post-grad students. Their work permits are not renewable and of course they are required to fulfill—