Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 27th, 2024

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

In this case, it certainly isn't the immigration level numbers.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Then what's the problem?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

We launched the program a few months ago. It is at the intake cap as of May 6, and we continue the security processing and the landing of people, which was always planned to be around early 2025. We are moving that up to 2024. We're working as hard as we can.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Okay. Then it will be almost two years before people get to safety. It took the government eight months to actually announce the program back in December and then another two months to actually move forward with the application process.

With the 3,250 cap, is that to do with the immigration levels plan?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Again, let's not presume that no work has been done in the interim. This is a family reunification program of people from different locations who have been affected by this devastating reality.

The number we have set is one that we do to manage our ability to properly process people within the programs, and all of these programs, with very few exceptions, have caps.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Well, the immigration levels plan for 2024 for H and C is 13,750; for 2025, 8,000; and for 2026, 8,000. You can see how tight those numbers are.

If the minister says it has nothing to do with the immigration levels plan, can he provide the committee with a list of all the countries that are supposed to fit into these tight numbers that are needing special immigration measures or H and C applications to get to safety? As well, what are the allocations for those countries?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

To the extent that we have them, I'm sure we could provide a rough estimate of what will be comprised in those. As you know, there are many events that happen around the world, and we have to open our arms to people who are fleeing war and devastation. We do that, and we will continue to do that. Often that does put pressure on some of these things we try to predict years before but that don't necessarily turn out to be true. Take, for example, the situation in Ukraine.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Maybe we can get the breakdown of those numbers. How many are targeted for Ukraine? How many are targeted for the Americas with the government's special deal, the secret deal, for the safe third country agreement, for Sudan, for Hong Kong, for Gaza, etc.? Can we get those numbers, please?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I just take issue with the 15,000 in the Americas program. It's far from secret. It's quite open.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

It was negotiated in secret.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Well, we don't negotiate things with Biden in front of a press gallery, that's for sure. However, we certainly talk to them and come up with a plan to make sure there's a safe way to migrate through the Americas, which, as you know, is exceedingly dangerous, especially through the Darien Gap.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

The time is up, Madam Kwan, so I will—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

He just rambled on.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Mr. Morrice, go ahead, please.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, we have 25 minutes until our next vote. I request from the committee two minutes to ask a question of the minister on this topic.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Is there unanimous consent?

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Is there unanimous consent to continue the meeting?

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

No.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Mr. Kmiec said there's no consent, so I'm going to suspend the meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

I call this meeting to order.

We will have one round of four minutes for each party.

Without further ado, we will start with Mr. McLean.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the officials for being here today.

I do have some questions. I'm going to start with some of the clear issues around Sudan.

The program you've designed for Sudanese refugees to come to Canada allows for 3,250 applicants. I think this is the number of spaces. Delineate for us how 3,250 is the right number and how many you think it will actually be, because most of these people will have to bring their families as well. It's 3,250 spaces, which will probably be fewer than 1,000 applicants if they bring in their families. Why is it so low?

[Dr. Harpreet S. Kochhar, Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

Chair, just to clarify, the program, which is designed for permanent residents, is for 3,250 applications, and each application can include dependants. If there were a family, that family would be included as a part of that application. Roughly calculated, our assessment—and this is a little bit of an extrapolation based on family sizes—is that somewhere in the range of 6,000 to 8,000 people will come on the 3,250 applications that are made.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Doing some quick math, that's two people per each of the 3,250 applications, effectively, and you're saying there will be 6,000 people. That's an applicant and their spouse only, but most of these people will have family with them. Was there no consideration of that whatsoever?