Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 3rd, 2024

[MaryScott Greenwood]

The question of whether a customer is entitled to permanent residency in Canada or to Canadian citizenship is one for policy-makers.

In terms of what we communicate, we walk through the process as it is today, which is that they apply for early withdrawal, that they submit a form, and that they make a statutory declaration that they have departed, or will depart, from Hong Kong to reside elsewhere and have no intention of returning to Hong Kong for employment or for resettlement. The form is prescribed by the regulator, as we discussed.

They also provide proof that they are permitted to permanently reside in a place outside of Hong Kong, and that could be a passport or a permanent residency, and then we go through the customer service process. If we are unable to process their application for reasons of mismatched documentation, then we help them through that process as well, and they can always reapply.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Ms. Hewitt, you have 20 seconds.

[Laura Hewitt]

We have a similar process when we're working with clients.

I will maybe add that we do have a pension services hotline that clients can reach out to if they need individualized assistance processing their application. That's something that we proactively communicate to clients and allow them to access if they need assistance while completing their application for early withdrawal.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much.

We will go to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

You have two minutes, please.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Witnesses, do you realize that your companies are making millions of dollars by preventing desperate people fleeing a totalitarian regime from withdrawing their own money, simply because, as you say, you're following the rules of that totalitarian regime? That's what we can see today.

My question is quite simple. Are the values of your respective companies profit at all costs, or are they freedom and democracy?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Madam Hewitt.

[Laura Hewitt]

I can confirm that we continue to focus on the client and put them at the centre of anything we do anywhere around the world. We are providing access to Canadian citizens and Canadian permanent residents—I want to assure the committee of that—to access to their funds when they permanently depart Hong Kong. We will continue to do so.

More generally, we hold onto the funds for retirement. This is, again, a retirement system that's intended to be there into their later years in life, so by design it has specific criteria for withdrawal prior to retirement date.

We continue to administer the program and ensure that those who are allowed to access those funds early are able to do so. Otherwise, we are stewards of that money for the almost one million Hong Kongers who rely on us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Honourable member, do you want Ms. Greenwood to answer too?

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

The people from Hong Kong Watch and Canada‑Hong Kong Link are giving us quite different information. Unfortunately, it seems that you're making profits from retirement funds that people would like to withdraw and live on before becoming permanent residents. However, they can't touch these funds, since you're following the instructions from the government in Beijing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe. That was one minute and 50 seconds.

Madam Kwan, please go ahead.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I have two quick questions.

First, outside of your companies, which make the decision about whether or not someone can have an early withdrawal of their pension, is there another authority that could make that decision, to supersede it or override it?

The other question is, are there provisions within your consideration for persecuted people who may request early withdrawal, even though they may not have PR or citizenship in another country but are in the process of seeking a pathway for permanent residence or citizenship in another country?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Madam Greenwood.

[MaryScott Greenwood]

From where we sit, we're not in a position to be able to fast-track someone's permanent residency application or citizenship in any country in the world. That, of course, is something that governments have to consider themselves.

Once that has been established, we're able to process the early fund withdrawal. Otherwise, we hold the pensions for our customers until they are able to withdraw them.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Yes, but I'm a little bit frustrated. That wasn't my question.

My question was, are there provisions within your consideration that will grant people this ability to have an early withdrawal as they are in the process of seeking permanent residence or citizenship in another country? I'm talking about people who are perhaps asylum seekers, who are being persecuted. Is there any consideration for that?

I just want a straight-up answer to my question and then also a straight-up answer with respect to whether there is any authority that could either supersede your decision in advance or override it afterwards.

[MaryScott Greenwood]

We abide by laws and regulations in the jurisdiction in which we operate all around the world, as you would expect us to do as a highly regulated industry. There's nothing that supersedes that. We abide by the regulations for financial services, as everyone in the industry does for the benefit, by the way, and the protection of our customers and of their pensions.

I think that was the question, if I got it right.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you.

Madam Hewitt, do you want to contribute to this question?

[Laura Hewitt]

I can answer maybe just the first part of the question, which was on the process for the approval.

The trustee is the first one to review the applications. That's the normal course. The application for early departure comes in to the trustee, and we verify whether the application has met those three criteria that have been outlined.

Once we have verified that, we forward the application to the MPFA, the regulator, and they confirm that the applicant has not previously accessed the permanent departure stream, because we do not have access to an applicant's entire history. We just have their current history. The MPFA reviews from that perspective.

That's the process.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much.

On behalf of the committee members, I want to thank Ms. Hewitt and Ms. Greenwood for being with us.

Thank you. The very best to you.

With this, I would like to adjourn the meeting.

The meeting is adjourned.