Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 7th, 2024

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Further to that, Minister Miller noted, as reported in the National Post and Toronto Star, that he gave ample notice to provincial and territorial counterparts. It was reported in the National Post and Toronto Star that any suggestion otherwise is “complete garbage”.

The minister said, “We said quite clearly they need to get their houses in order. We spoke specifically about Ontario that has the largest number of international students.” In addition to this, he said the federal government invited provincial counterparts to meetings that they never showed up for. With respect to provinces and territories getting their houses in order, Minister Miller also noted, “If that job can't be done, the federal government is prepared to do it.”

[Bronwyn May]

As I mentioned in my opening remarks, at the federal level we've taken decisive action. A multi-layered set of reforms has been put in place, but we can't act alone. This requires collaboration with all levels of government and other stakeholders, with learning institutions and with everybody who has an interest in and responsibility with respect to the post-secondary sector.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, Madame Zahid.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

To honourable members and witnesses, this study has to do with international students who are seeking asylum. When the department or the IRB responds to us and gives us statistics and numbers, they should be focused on that particularly. Otherwise, we will have to come back to you to figure them out. If you amalgamate all the asylum seekers into one file, we will not be able to know about the students.

Now we're going to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

Please go ahead for six minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In September, Minister Miller announced a reduced target for international students.

Do you have targets by province?

[Bronwyn May]

I thank the member for his question. I will turn it over to Ms. Spattz.

[Julie Spattz, Senior Director, International Students Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

In fact, we don't have targets yet. We are developing targets by province, but, at the moment, we have only set the pan-Canadian target.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I would like to clarify something. They say they've lowered the thresholds based on discussions, conversations, and in collaboration with provinces, but how can they say that and not have anticipated that they will have to choose which provinces will be most affected by the decrease?

[Julie Spattz]

In fact, we haven't yet determined the targets by province, but we're currently discussing and analyzing how to set and finalize them.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

The figures you have must have given you some sense of which provinces will see a more conspicuous decline in study permits in their province compared to the others.

I imagine you already know which ones will be most affected.

[Julie Spattz]

As was the case last year, we have a methodology for distributing the national cap among all provinces and territories. This methodology takes various factors into account, such as approval rates and the demographic weight of all the provinces and territories. I believe even Minister Miller said that the methodology would be similar this year, but we're just finalizing it. Unfortunately, I can't provide you with any more information on that.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

However, if demographic weight is the basis for determining the number of study permits issued, logically, Quebec should not be affected or should be much less affected than Ontario. Normally, your department should not lower the threshold in Quebec when it approves study permits.

I suppose you can't answer that question. Very well. Not to worry.

Minister Miller blocked access to post-graduate work permits for students who have completed certain programs. There were changes in that regard. The Fédération des cégeps, in particular, raised the alarm that this change could harm it and that Quebec regions, in particular, might suffer as a result. The fact is that international students are often enrolled in regional college programs. They come to study under these programs that are directly connected to the socio-economic needs of the region in which they are offered.

I'll give you an example. The Cégep de St-Félicien offers a course on wood processing, a very important sector in Quebec, especially in the Saguenay–Lac-Saint-Jean region. These students will no longer be able to access the postgraduate work permit; however, I'm not sure I understand the rationale for such a measure. It probably doesn't change the threshold for foreign students who are accepted, since we're talking about a postgraduate permit here.

Why don't we want to give them access to the postgraduate work permit once they've been accepted?

[Julie Spattz]

Thank you for your question. I'll answer it in two parts.

The postgraduate work permit reforms were guided by two key principles. The first is volume management. As you know, the measures we've implemented—the cap on study permits and postgraduate work permits granted to students after graduation—help the government meet its 5% commitment, in other words, to ensure that the weight of temporary residents is equivalent to 5% by the end of 2026. This is one of the considerations underlying the reform of the postgraduate work permit program.

The other principle is to get a better calibration of the program by taking into account not only our domestic labour shortages but also access to the permanent residency program.

The reforms we made to the postgraduate work permit program were based on the demand for labour at the national level.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

In doing so, we are not directly connected to the reality on the ground. What I can see is that at the bachelor's, master's and doctoral levels, people will have access to the postgraduate work permit.

Does that mean that, in Canada, jobs for which there is a greater labour shortage are those that require a bachelor's degree, a master's degree or a Ph.D.?

[Julie Spattz]

Thank you for the question.

I will tell you that college education—what CEGEPs offer, in the case of Quebec—is very important when it comes to labour needs. No one is saying otherwise or wants—

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Forgive me, but you just told me that the exemptions, particularly in the case of the postgraduate work permit, were created because of the labour requirements at the national level. Now you're telling me that I'm right and that college programs do indeed train people in fields where there is a major labour shortage. There's a disconnect in what you're saying.

[Julie Spattz]

Thank you for—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

The time is up, Ms. Spattz, but I want to give you a brief chance to respond if you want to.

[Julie Spattz]

As I started to say, college education is very important when it comes to labour shortages. That said, the number of foreign students attending a college or CEGEP has increased considerably.

The primary objective I mentioned—which consists of calibrating volumes—is a measure that may seem draconian, but it was necessary.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

There is a point of order from Mr. El-Khoury.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to make it clear, as I believe there is some misunderstanding, that our study must be focused on the recent reforms to the program, not on asylum claims.

Can you illustrate that to the committee, please?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you.

The clear purpose of the study is the recent reforms to the international student program. However, every member has a right to ask questions on whichever topic they wish. I cannot stop them, as long as it isn't out of order. It is up to the officials. I want to make it very clear that this study is focused on students, and I agree with you that it's focused in particular on the recent reforms to the international student program.

With that in mind, I'm going to stop the watch and reset it.

I'll go to MP Kwan for six minutes. Please go ahead.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for their appearance here today.

My first question is for IRCC officials.

With respect to the fraudulent letter numbers you just shared with us, do you have any indication that particular individuals or organizations are issuing these fraudulent letters? Is there any pattern or trend emerging?

[Bronwyn May]

The enhanced letter of acceptance system has been in place now for about 10 months, so we're in the process of analyzing the data associated with the 10,000-plus letters of acceptance. It's something we will be paying very close attention to and taking a very close look at.