Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 7th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

I call the meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 114 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on October 24, 2024, the committee is commencing its study of the recent reforms to the international student program.

I would like to remind all participants of the following points.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. All comments should be addressed through the chair.

Members, whether you're participating in person or via Zoom, please raise your hand if you wish to speak. The clerk and I will manage the speaking order as best we can.

Just to remind new members of the committee of a rule at this committee, if an honourable member feels a witness is going too long, they should raise their hand. I then stop the clock so that I don't take your time. I don't want cross-conversations. Thank you for doing that.

We have two new honourable members with us today. I would love to acknowledge Arpan Khanna and Jean Yip. Welcome.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. In accordance with the committee's routine motions concerning connection tests for the witnesses, I'm informing the committee that all witnesses have completed the required connection tests in advance of the meeting.

I have some administrative matters before we begin. We have prepared a draft budget regarding the study of the recent reforms to the international student program, in the amount of $19,250. That's to cover four meetings. I have another one regarding the briefing on the 2024 annual report to Parliament on immigration, in the amount of only $500.

Is there a motion to adopt these budgets?

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Yes, I will move that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Are all in favour?

(Motion agreed to)

No deadline has been decided by the committee for the submission of briefs concerning the study on the recent reforms to the international student program. Do you agree to set a date for that, either November 29 at 5:00 p.m. or the following Friday, December 6, at 5:00 p.m.?

There seems to be consensus. The deadline is set for December 6 at 5:00 p.m.

On the study of pension transferability and access to the mandatory provident fund, and delays in permanent residence and visas for Hong Kongers, on Tuesday, November 5, the clerk distributed a calendar of our business until December. On Monday, November 18, we have witnesses from IRCC and Finance Canada for the first hour. For the second hour, we scheduled time to give drafting instructions to the analysts. However, as explained earlier, a summary of evidence will not be ready for that day.

Would the committee like to give drafting instructions without a summary of evidence?

MP Kwan.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I think it would be important to have the summary of evidence available for committee members. Often, it is instructive for the analysts so they know the areas we want to focus on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Are there any other comments?

MP Zahid.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

By when do you expect that we will get the summary of evidence?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

I will go to Andrea Garland.

Go ahead.

[Andrea Garland, Committee Researcher]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Depending on what the committee wants, we are able to provide a summary of evidence, but it will take time to produce. We'll also create both versions, the French and English versions.

If that's what the committee wishes, then we can come back with a date that is reasonable.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

There is some echo coming in with the sound.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Do other members feel the same way? Is there an echo?

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I can hear the interpretation, but I can also hear a bit of an echo in my earpiece. I don't know if everyone else does too.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Okay. I'm going to suspend the meeting so we can find the technical fix.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Okay, everything is good. Now I'm going to give the floor to Ms. Garland.

Ms. Garland, if you were in Parliament, you would love to have your name called that many times.

Go ahead, please.

[Andrea Garland]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

After looking at the calendar, we want to convey two possible options. The first option is delivering the summary of evidence by November 22. I want to clarify that it's a non-exhaustive summary of evidence but one that tracks the themes, the various important quotations, etc. That would lead to drafting instructions the following week, if the committee is comfortable with not having a full week between the summary of evidence distribution and the drafting instructions.

The other option, depending on when the committee wants the report to be provided, is that the summary of evidence not happen and the drafting instructions occur faster to allow for a faster return of the report.

Those are the two considerations, but November 22 would be the earliest distribution date.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Are there any more questions? I don't see any.

The clerk will try to invite witnesses for the second hour regarding the study on the recent reforms to the international student program.

Before I go to the study, MP Kwan, do you want to say anything else?

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I do. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

There are two things I would like to raise.

First off, committee members received an amended notice about this particular study and it relates to witnesses, in particular officials from the department. It's been amended such that IRB representatives are being added to this study as witnesses.

Mr. Chair, how did that come about? Did a particular party request this change? Were any other committee members consulted on this change before it was finalized?

That's the first issue I'm going to raise. I'm going to pause to get the answers for that, and then I have a second issue to raise.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

It was brought forward by the Conservatives and I unilaterally accepted it.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Chair, as it was brought forward by the Conservatives, who did you consult among committee members to make that change? That's not part of the study given the motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

I don't see much of an issue there.

I want to give floor to Mr. Kmiec.

Do you want to say something?

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Mr. Chair, IRB officials are paid by the taxpayer. They're just as responsible to parliamentary committees as anybody else. I see no problems whatsoever with you having added them.

Also, Minister Miller has tied the international student program changes directly to asylum seekers in Canada. If you'd like, I can quote directly the headlines of articles where he makes the connection, so it's completely material to the study.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Go ahead, MP Kwan.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Chair, I'm not disputing whether the IRB is an important component of the immigration system or the work they do. I'm raising a question on the process here. We have a specific motion before us. In it, we talked about department officials. There was no mention of IRB officials being invited, so to go to my second question, Mr. Chair, which you have not answered, were any other committee members consulted on that change? I wasn't.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

They were not, and I am honest about that. To me, it seemed to be an important part of the process because they are non-political, and the opinions they will be able to give us are probably going to help committee members. That's what my thought process was, and that's what my thought process is now.

MP Kwan, go ahead.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I'll close with this comment, Mr. Chair.

I think in the future, if there's such a change, committee members ought to be notified that this has been done, and not just as a fait accompli. This is, in my view, a substantive change, and normally this kind of change in a motion would be part of the original motion.

If in fact it is the wish of the committee that IRB appear as part of the study to speak to implications related to international students and refugee claims, it should be explicitly stated in the motion. I would ask that this be the exercise in the future.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, Madam Kwan. It's very well noted. I will certainly do that and have no issues with it whatsoever.

With that, can we start the study?