Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 25th, 2024

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

What I can provide to you as a number is the expected decrease over the three-year period, which is about 450 the first year and 450 the next year. That's net-net, incoming and outcoming, with a slight increase in 2027.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Again, how are you going to track those whose work permits are expiring by the end of 2025? It's in the hundreds of thousands. You're not giving me much confidence or Canadians confidence that you have a plan.

We have a breakdown by month of how many student visas and work visas are expiring. You haven't provided any information on the means. How are you going to do it? You say you have partner organizations and that you're working with people. What are you actually doing? What's the process? How are you going to ensure that people abide by the visa conditions?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

As I said to you before, just like the vast majority of people who come to the country on a temporary basis, the vast majority leave. In some cases—increasingly many, I will concede—people decide to choose; they are in a situation of irregularity, in that case. Once they have exhausted their remedies, they are removed by the CBSA.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

That's interesting, because you've repeatedly made public statements claiming and saying and alleging, based on IRCC data, that this is not what's going on. That's why the IRB now has a record number of backlogged applications for asylum.

You have said that tens of thousands of them are actually international students who are staying longer and applying for asylum, and you're claiming they don't have a legitimate claim to make. Those are your quotes and the headlines you're generating by doing communications out there.

Are you saying you don't have a plan, or that part of your plan is to have an increasing backlog at the IRB to deal with it?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

The time is up, but Minister, please respond.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

There are an increasing number of international students making asylum claims, I think with very little hope, given their conditions. Whether you like it or not, they are entitled to a form of due process in this country. I don't think you would purport to deny it to them.

Are there things we can do to make sure that it's more streamlined? I would encourage you to follow the next few weeks as we propose more amendments to the immigration system and the asylum system.

However, let's recall that every party in this House, except for the Liberal Party, voted down our asylum reforms in the budget. It's a bit shameful, considering that Conservatives had proposed these in earlier years, but you chose to play politics about it. This is a system that is in need of reform, and it's in need of reform in the right way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you.

We'll go to MP Zahid for six minutes. Please go ahead.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for appearing before the committee.

Minister, I represent a large Lebanese community in my riding of Scarborough Centre that is very worried for the safety of their relatives back in Lebanon. I have one constituent who in days lost his brother and his wife and their three children in one Israeli bombing and his other younger brother and his wife in another bombing.

The community is beside themselves with anger and grief. They see the help we have given to people fleeing the war in Ukraine. They see the program to bring the extended families of Canadian citizens and permanent residents in Gaza to Canada for temporary safety. They have asked me to ask you, Minister, this: Will you commit to doing the same for the extended families of Lebanese Canadians who are losing members of their family daily?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

As you know, I represent a sizable Lebanese community in Montreal myself. My heart goes out to them. I think everyone would agree that the best way to ensure their safety is to make sure there's a ceasefire. There's been some encouraging news over the last little while. Let's hope that whatever it is is true and sticks.

At this time, I think there are a number of considerations that make Lebanon unique. One is the very large and significant number of Canadian citizens and permanent residents. Our focus needs to remain on them and the resources necessary to evacuate them, should the situation get worse. We have, over the course of the last few months, made numerous warnings to the community to come out. However, given that they are Canadian citizens and permanent residents, they have the option to stay or to leave, and we can't abandon them if they choose to stay. That has to remain the focus of the Canadian government, and it will remain the focus of the Canadian government.

That may be frustrating to hear, but my job as the immigration minister is to be quite honest. With the resources that we have and the focus that we are putting on Canadians and permanent residents, given the tens of thousands that are in Lebanon, those will remain our focus.

It doesn't mean that we do nothing when we're in Canada. As you know, I announced a number of measures for people who are already here, such as to extend their visas instead of sending people back to Lebanon. There's been an administrative deferral of removals to Lebanon; obviously, we're not sending anyone back. We'll also make sure to support the people who are here while the war continues.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

Now I'll turn to supplementary estimates B.

In the supplementary estimates B, your asks include funding to support the asylum seekers in Quebec and funding for the interim federal health program. Could you please talk about the importance of these asks and the potential consequences in case the estimates are not passed?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Well, if they're not passed, there's no money for anyone, and that has some pretty devastating consequences in a number of circumstances.

I will say, first and foremost, with regard to the interim health benefits for people who are seeking asylum here—in increasing volumes, I'll admit—that we have to make sure that they are not denied medical coverage while we migrate them into the provincial systems.

Remember that the Conservatives tried this, and the court said it was cruel and unusual punishment to withhold that from asylum seekers. It wasn't too long ago that this occurred. Making sure that it's there as a matter of public health and public safety for Canadians, as well as for people who are here temporarily, including asylum seekers, is crucial, and I think it would be cruel not to do that. We have until mid-December to get this done, and I think that's super-important.

The other one of capital importance, I think—because we made the commitment to the Government of Quebec—is to reimburse Quebec for some of the expenses it has had in taking on a disproportionate burden of the asylum seekers who have come into the country. Whether it's the cumulative effect of those who came in through Roxham Road or newer arrivals from Trudeau airport, it's important, because this does have a cumulative effect. We have committed to the Quebec government to make sure that we do reinforce a portion of Quebec's cost. As I will remind my Bloc members surely in the next few minutes, it is a shared responsibility.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

In the supplementary estimates (B), there is also funding for the interim housing assistance program. Could you elaborate on the assistance the government has provided to cities such as Toronto, which are trying to deal with the increasing homelessness?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I can, absolutely.

It's important not to treat asylum seekers.... Asylum seekers are in a different situation from people who are homeless. Unfortunately, people do wind up on the streets. It was a matter of great discussion with Mayor Chow when I first came into this role. We were able to come to an agreement on making sure that Toronto was compensated.

There is a natural flow of people towards the big city centres. With big airports, such as Pearson and Trudeau, migrants either move into Montreal or flow into Toronto and move increasingly towards Ontario, to be frank.

We have to make sure not only that the Government of Ontario is at the table but also that we are supporting municipalities that are shouldering a lot of this burden without the fiscal levers that provinces and the federal government would have.

I recently visited the Peel centre and then spoke to Mayor Brown as a result of his advocacy to get this centre up and running. It will be a game-changer in the area.

Obviously, the federal government has to do a good job of bringing the asylum numbers down, which are high again this year, but when people come here and claim asylum and don't have a place to stay—it isn't everyone who doesn't have a place to stay—there has to be a place to process them, make sure they have a roof over their head and get them into the job market as they await their due process from the IRB.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much, MP Zahid.

Before I go to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, I did not mean to ignore Mike Morrice, but I wanted to give him a special introduction.

Mike Morrice, welcome.

Now we will go to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for six minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, Minister.

Donald Trump recently announced that Thomas Homan will head up the U.S. agency responsible for immigration and border control. You probably know who Mr. Homan is.

He has also appointed Pete Hoekstra to the position of U.S. Ambassador to Canada. You may also know of Mr. Hoekstra and his affection, as it were, for the Heritage Foundation's Project 2025.

Does your government or your department have a plan to address the situation if Canada has to deal with an unprecedented wave of asylum claimants as a result of those appointments and especially as a result of the remarks Mr. Trump made during the presidential election campaign?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Thank you for your question, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

Whatever the United States does as a country will definitely affect Canada one way or another. One tenth of the population has close ties or socio-economic ties with the United States.

As I've said many times, it would obviously be naive to outline a plan in public, but the members of our group, the cabinet, are working on a number of measures to enable us, first, to work with the Americans. Regardless of the position the United States takes, our philosophical view of the U.S. and the regime that is about to come into power is that we have to work with them.

We have a common interest, and that's to ensure that Canada's southern border, the northern border of the United States, is secure. We obviously don't want a repeat of what happened at Roxham Road a few years ago.

I would like to add a comment before you ask your next question.

The problems facing the United States are also our problems here in Canada, and the reverse is also true. That's what we're going to discuss with the new administration. We're going to ensure that, if the United States has an issue that concerns Canada, we will take action far upstream and work with them to resolve it.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Non-profit organizations have sounded the alarm about the fact that there could indeed be a wave of asylum claimants. After all, there is a potential threat that some 11 million to 18 million people may be deported.

Minister, I'm going to table a Bloc Québécois motion later today. I've already tabled a notice of motion.

We're going to request that this committee conduct a study on the potential consequences of the measures that Mr. Trump announced during the presidential campaign. The purpose of that motion is to invite you to testify about the topic before the committee for two hours.

If the motion is adopted, can you confirm that you will be prepared to appear before the committee as part of that study?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I know that another committee is competing with yours to have me appear at a meeting. I'll make my decision at the appropriate time. I think the study could be interesting.

I can't commit to a two-hour appearance because I don't even know what I'm doing three hours from now.

If your study overlaps with that of another committee, the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration will have to rule on the matter. I think this is a very important topic, and we'll have to look into the matter regardless of the committee's decision as to whether the study will be conducted soon or at a later date.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Minister, thank you for confirming that the study will be important.

The Bloc Québécois has been asking the government questions about immigration targets for two years now, emphasizing, for example, the pressure they exert on public services and housing. However, every time a Bloc Québécois member asks a question, we're more or less told there's no connection between immigration and those two aspects. But when you recently announced that the targets would be lowered, you said that was warranted because of the pressure they put on public services and access to housing.

My question is quite simple, Minister. Why weren't those arguments accepted when they came from the Bloc Québécois, since you're now justifying lowering the immigration targets based on the same arguments?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I hope that what I'm understanding from your question is that the Bloc Québécois supports our immigration levels plan.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

That's not at all what I mean, Minister.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I believe that all members and ministers have a responsibility to be fair and measured in their public statements. To say, as one provincial premier did, that all the evils of society can be attributed to immigrants is unfair. It's badmouthing immigrants behind their backs.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I was talking about the Bloc Québécois, Minister. I believe we've been responsible, and you know it—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, please raise your hand.