Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 25th, 2024

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I want to say that the federal government has responsibility here. It is a much broader analysis than simply putting it on the shoulders of one institution, but it is important for the federal government—

[Arpan Khanna, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Do you not—

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Maybe I can finish my thought.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Go ahead, Minister.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

It is important for the government to acknowledge that we could have gotten things right in many measures.

There are conundrums that come with any immigration program, and one of those is the impact that this has had. These immigration plans—pretty much regardless of category—are to make the labour force younger and increase the GDP of this country, which is extremely important coming out of COVID, thanks to structural challenges in the supply chain. There were some people here temporarily who made sure we got through a recession, and that's important to note. The economy has been fuelled by immigration.

Again, it is not an unlimited supply. Any responsible government, like the federal government, has to make sure it is managing and controlling a system in the volumes that are acceptable to Canada.

[Arpan Khanna, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Who was responsible for the 211% increase we saw of international students since 2015? What was the government in charge that signed off on that?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Those are two different questions.

We are responsible for putting—

[Arpan Khanna, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

They're not.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

—together an international student program that institutions leveraged, and to some extent abused, in the volume of people they brought in.

Let me also say this, and you know this: The federal government is the only one that doesn't make any money directly from this. A provincial government—Ontario, for example—makes about $1,000 a head on every international student. It abused this system by bringing in people to study at institutions, some of them very reputable and the pride of this country, and some that pretty much didn't exist.

That's something we've had to rein in. You can speak to Mayor Brown yourself about what he's living through in Brampton. I think you would know exactly who I'm talking about.

[Arpan Khanna, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Minister, it looks like you're passing the buck and blaming other bad actors, but the population growth we saw of 300%—the highest it's ever been since the 1950s—is a federal responsibility. You are the one signing off on these approvals. It is your government that is responsible for this. However, it looks to me as if you're literally pointing fingers at everyone in Canada but yourself and your predecessors.

Do you not think it's right for you to take some responsibility for these actions that have taken place? Shouldn't you put Sean Fraser on the list of some of those bad actors who have been part of the problem?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Sean Fraser is one of the guys who counselled me to do this. We all bear our responsibility—

[Arpan Khanna, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

After creating the problem, he actually gave advice.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

There's a lot of responsibility to go around, Arpan, and I think you know that. Immigration is a shared responsibility. Provinces and institutions of various descriptions come to us and ask us for different programs. We have a very important role in making sure we get it right. That's why I introduced the measures I did last year, with another wave in the fall, in addition to the levels plan that is the subject of conversation today.

[Arpan Khanna, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Minister, how many permanent residents do you expect in the next three years?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I expect what's in the levels plan: 395,000 next year—a reduction of 105,000—380,000 the next year and 365,000 the year after that.

[Arpan Khanna, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

How many temporary resident permits do you expect to issue in those three years?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

You can look in the levels plan for that.

[Arpan Khanna, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

I'm asking you, Minister.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

It's in the levels plan.

[Arpan Khanna, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

I'm asking you for those numbers, Minister.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Look in the levels plan.

[Arpan Khanna, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Do you not know the numbers?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I know the numbers. I can look them up—

[Arpan Khanna, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Then what are the numbers?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

How much time do we have? I can go give—