Evidence of meeting #117 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was know.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal
I call the meeting back to order.
We are debating the amendment brought by MP Kwan. It has been distributed by email.
MP Kwan, you have the floor.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Maybe I can take a couple of moments to explain the amendment.
The amendment, in my view, is substantively different from the motion moved. This is important, because my specific amendment calls for the committee to examine the origins or the development of the special immigration measure.
This special immigration measure is different from the other special immigration measures. Take, as examples, the Kuwait program and the program to facilitate bringing Ukrainians to safety, and rightly so. They are much wider and broader. In this instance, we have a measure that is particularly limiting.
As a result, people are wondering why that is the case.
Then, I think, it would be important for the committee to examine the development and execution of the government's special immigration measures for Canadian Gazan families. As well, there are additional issues related to this matter in terms of bringing people to safety, and that is in relation to Canada's diplomatic relations. It would be an important component for us to get an understanding of that as related to this measure.
Finally, last but not least, I think it's important to hear from affected family members, as well as civil society. Many of them have been working very hard in trying to help bring people to safety, and families have direct experience with the current program and where some of the fault lines are. Unless we fully understand what those fault lines are from their perspective, we're not going to be able to fix them, or to at least try. I think it's important to incorporate these elements into the motion, Mr. Chair.
All of this came from my original motion that I had given notice of to the committee some weeks ago. Then, of course, the Liberals came forward with a revised and much truncated version of it, but I think that if we're going to do justice to the Palestinian community, to Gazan families, we need to do a thorough job.
Those are the reasons for my amendment. After that, Mr. Chair, I will have another amendment to make, but we'll go forward with this first.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal
Okay. Is there more discussion on the amendment brought forward by MP Kwan?
If there is no discussion, all in favour of the amendment—
The Clerk of the Committee Mr. Rémi Bourgault
The vote is on the amendment proposed by Ms. Kwan.
(Amendment agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5 [See Minutes of Proceedings])
Liberal
Liberal
Salma Zahid Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON
Thank you, Chair.
I want to speak to the motion we have on the floor.
I think this is a very important study. It needs to be done. I've been hearing from my constituents about the issues they have been facing to get their loved ones out of Gaza. I have heard horrific stories from many of my constituents who have parents, grandparents or siblings who have been having issues in getting out of Gaza.
I think it will be an important study to hear from the government on how we can help reunite those families with their loved ones. In the last 13 months, we have seen the deaths of close to 50,000 people, innocent Palestinians, who have been killed in Gaza. The Canadians here who are Canadian citizens or PRs are living by their phones. Many family members have lost close to 10 or 20 people. Every family you talk to has lost so many loved ones.
It will be good for us to hear and see what challenges the government is having and how we can make sure that we facilitate the people living in Gaza to get out of Gaza. The famine that many people are facing is really mind-boggling for all of us.
Thank you.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to move the following amendment to this motion.
I would like to add before the words “that the committee report its findings”:
and further that the committee order the production of all documents and records related to the policy-making considerations that led to the specific dimensions of the temporary public policy that opened on January 9, 2024, including the 1,000-person cap, the gradual issuance of access codes and delays in receiving codes experienced by many applicants, and the information requested from applicants on additional screening forms; that, while respecting s. 19, s. 23, and s. 69 of the Access to Information Act, these details be provided within 30 days of the adoption of this motion and relevant documents be released in full to the public;
Mr. Chair, the reason I think this is important is that we just passed the amendment related to the development and execution of the government's special immigration measures. To supplement that work, it would be absolutely critical for committee members to have the documentation to go with it. If we don't, it's just a pretend exercise.
As we saw in many cases—and not even that long ago—if you ask the minister direct questions, he will obfuscate and not answer the questions. The only way we can get at the truth is to get these documents.
Perhaps the Liberals will not be conducive to producing documents, as we are seeing in the House of Commons. However, that said, I hope we will come to realize that this is not a partisan issue, but rather an issue of Palestinian families in Gaza and their Canadian family members deserving the right to know.
Many people are wondering why there is such a differential treatment among communities. People can't help but notice this. When they see it, they can't help but wonder if discrimination and racism are at play. I truly hope not. I hope there are real, legitimate reasons that the government has come in with this limited measure.
Let's put it all out in the open. Transparency is key, I think. Once upon a time, the Prime Minister used to say something about sunlight being the best disinfectant. Well, let's shine some light on this. Let's put notions about the rationale behind differential treatment to rest, I hope. If not, the government needs to do better. It is not okay to allow discriminatory practices to exist in any policy decision-making within the government.
Conservative
Greg McLean Conservative Calgary Centre, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair. l have a few things to say.
I've heard my colleague Ms. Kwan. I do appreciate what she's saying about putting a light on the potential racism that she says might be here. At the end of my speaking here, I'm going to have to make an amendment to her previous subamendment that is now part of the motion, which includes when she brings up the issue of hearing from Gazan families.
The motion itself was about Gaza and Sudan. As much as we'd like to hear from Gazan families, we'd also like to hear from the families of Sudanese Canadians. I'll be moving that at the end of this discourse.
In the meantime, I want to make sure that we understand what's happening in Sudan at this point. It is the number one problem in the world in terms of displaced people and conflict. There are10 million refugees in Sudan. We've agreed to take 3,250 applicants into Canada. Those are applicants alone at this point in time. I'm beseeching the department officials here today to make sure that we actually get those applications processed efficiently.
I would really like to know—since 3,250 applications was the cap—how many more we received beyond that cap and how many of those 3,250 have been actually processed so that people are actually arriving in Canada. Of those 3,250, how many people have actually settled in with their families here in Canada, and how many are waiting for processing at the department? Could they give us some timelines on that processing time, as well? That's very important.
If you're in one of the worst situations in the world, in refugee camps outside of a war-torn country, with no end in sight, then you are looking for solutions. Those solutions are life-and-death solutions, not just paper-pushing solutions. We really need to be as efficient as possible at this end, Mr. Chair, to make sure that we actually get this done for the sake of people who need it more than anything else.
This has been ongoing. I can't tell you, Mr. Chair, how many times we've raised this issue at this committee. We need to look at this situation in its totality. We need to look at how much misery is caused because of this and look at how many families in Canada are waiting for the Liberal government to actually get this program processed effectively. It is a long time. It is a push-off and a push-off.
I know that our officials here from the immigration department, IRCC, are wonderful officials, but they have been swamped and whipsawed back and forth by the government in its policies. I looked at the plan that the government put in front of Parliament for this year, and the numbers, frankly, are somewhat overwhelming. Again it is an up and down, a program in and a program out. It is showing a whole bunch of moving parts, none of which are leading to a more efficient process at the end of the day.
The government, through its mandates to its various departments, has to start providing some more ability to process things as they're supposed to be done. Government, at the end of the day, has to start being an efficient deliverer of the programs it announces. We've had enough examples of a government that makes announcements and then fails at execution.
How do you tell that to people in Sudan? Do we tell them that we're sorry and that even though they have family in Canada, we're too busy with a whole bunch of files that are being whipsawed one way or another by the government?
We're not sure if the immigration department is a way to keep the country's numbers out of recession—because we are in a productivity recession—or if it is actually a way to bring people into Canada. It would be a life path for those people who want to be Canadians, who want to build their lives, to build futures for their children, to build peace and prosperity here in Canada, and who want to escape from a horrible situation on the ground where they live right now.
I know that horrible situation exists everywhere, Mr. Chair. Everywhere there are refugees and horror going on. We need to start apportioning where we can get those people from Sudan into Canada as quickly as possible.
We have constituents. Mr. Kmiec and I have been meeting with the Sudanese community in Calgary to make sure that their needs are met here in getting their families over from Sudan and areas just outside Sudan, where they've sought refuge, and in getting through this program. It's a measly 3,250 people we're bringing in to Canada from this area of the world. We'd like to see them efficiently brought in, at least, and make sure that we're actually transacting that as quickly as possible. That's our main motion here, of course.
With that being said—I know I'm going on about the same things—what I'd like to propose at the end is that we change that and make a quick subamendment to the amendment that was just passed. In addition to hearing from Gazan families, it includes also hearing from Sudanese families in Canada.
I'm sorry. I don't have that in writing for you here, but I think it's a simple addition.
Mr. Clerk, if you will, after Gazan families, we'd also talk about Sudanese families in Canada.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal
Oh, I see. I'm sorry.
Before I go back to you, Mr. McLean—because I have quite a few speakers on the speaking list and I also have to take the votes on the supplementary estimates—I'm going to let the officials go so that we can have discussions.
On behalf of the committee members, I want to thank the officials for being here. Thank you.
Give me just one minute, Mr. McLean.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal
You are on the list.
I have a speaking order. I have MP Zahid, then MP Kwan and then MP Chiang.
I'll give it a minute or so.
Mr. McLean, if you are ready, please go ahead.
Conservative
Greg McLean Conservative Calgary Centre, AB
No. I think what we have to do is suspend in order to....
NDP
November 25th, 2024 / 5:25 p.m.
Liberal
Liberal
