Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2024

[Kamaljit Lehal]

I think all students need to be financially secure, but the bigger part is Canada's role in supporting them once they are here in terms of resources like counselling and housing, as I said.

[Paul Chiang, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you.

You highlighted concerns about the role of unscrupulous school recruiters and immigration consultants.

How might the government's measures to limit visas for programs not eligible for postgraduate work permits, as well as its enhanced verification process, deter fraudulent actors in the system?

[Wei William Tao]

I think those are positive steps.

However, the reality is that, even if the rules change, those who want to exploit the system and take advantage of it will adjust their efforts, as well. Unfortunately, we're dealing with a lot of students from countries where Canada's relationship might not be the strongest right now. The Philippines is a great example of where we were able to make some bilateral improvements and encourage authorities to take on a bigger role in combatting fraud. With India, China and other countries right now, it might be a much more difficult situation.

I don't think it's as easy as measures will change things. I think it takes a coordinated effort on many stages to achieve that.

[Paul Chiang, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you for those answers.

Are you inferring that India and China will be difficult countries to work with?

[Wei William Tao]

I think it will be extremely difficult to curb some of these practices. They're so long-standing in those countries that it will require an enhanced level of diplomatic effort to get there.

[Paul Chiang, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you so much.

I'm turning to the witness from Higher Education Strategy Associates.

Do you view the introduction of annual caps on study permits as a measure to stabilize international student numbers, and do you see this as an effective way to address capacity challenges while maintaining institutional integrity?

[Tiffany MacLennan]

Yes and no is the complicated answer to that.

Yes, I think it is a step to help curb some of the problems we're—

[Paul Chiang, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair.

I cannot hear you. Could you speak up?

[Tiffany MacLennan]

My apologies.

I was saying that I think the answer to that is twofold. Yes, I do think that it is a measure that will be effective. That said, effective for whom and for what is a different story.

I think we've implemented a kind of broad stroke and one-size-fits-all measure that doesn't particularly solve issues that are happening in other places. In fact, it might create them.

While it might be an effective measure to curb some of the absorptive capacity of some of the areas that these schools are in, on the flip side of that I think it will also lead to other problems that bringing in international students has been addressing over the past decade.

[Paul Chiang, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

My next question is about how the decision to enhance the use of the designated learning institution portal for issuing acceptance letters was partly influenced by concerns about fraudulent consultant practices.

Do you believe that this move will address such issues? Are there additional safeguards that institutions and government should consider?

[Tiffany MacLennan]

I'm not perfectly equipped to speak to that. We are a consultancy that works with institutions and are not in any form of recruiting. I do think that the designated learning institutions are a first step in moving towards there, but I think there will be more steps that will have to be taken.

[Paul Chiang, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Would you recommend any other additional steps that we could take to make this system more credible?

[Tiffany MacLennan]

I could get back to you with recommendations, yes.

[Paul Chiang, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

That's great.

Thank you so much for your answers. Thank you for your time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

You still have a minute.

[Paul Chiang, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

How do you anticipate that the changes limiting spousal work permits for undergraduate and college-level international students will impact Canada's competitiveness in the global education market?

[Tiffany MacLennan]

I believe that the places they will affect the most are the colleges and the college vocational schools that are offering their programming. Their students are traditionally older and are participating in things that are directly related to our labour market, as opposed to more traditional undergraduate programming. I think that as a result we'll see less demand in some of the programming that is high-need, high-demand programming, especially vocational-type programming.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chiang.

We will go to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for six minutes, please.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd also like to thank all the witnesses for being with us today.

Ms. MacLennan, you said in your opening remarks that some universities are using international students to fill their coffers because education is underfunded in some provinces.

In your opinion, is that true of all universities across Canada?

[Tiffany MacLennan]

Yes, I think it's true of the system overall.

I can't speak to motivations in every single institution in the country. There are quite a few, but in the provinces, the funding for the post-secondary sector overall has been stagnant, with very minimal new money coming in on behalf of the governments, and as the costs continue to rise for these incredibly labour-intensive institutions, that money has to be made up somewhere. In places like Nova Scotia, where you have a 3% domestic student tuition cap, their hands have been quite tied, for lack of a better term.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Are you familiar with the Université du Québec network?

[Tiffany MacLennan]

I am familiar, but there are people in our office who are from Quebec, work in Quebec and have studied in Quebec. I would not be the right person to answer any particular question.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Okay. Thank you very much.

I want to explain to the committee that the Université du Québec network is big. It has more students than the entire University of Toronto. When Maxime Colleret testified here on behalf of the Université du Québec network, he said:

...we charge about $21,000 a year for international students. For a Quebec student, we get about $18,000 a year. However, we have to take into account the costs associated with educational tools, as well as support and integration measures for international students. We need to dispel the cash cow myth...

I imagine it's different elsewhere, but my understanding is that the Université du Québec network is unique. I think that's exactly why you talked about targeted measures rather than pan-Canadian ones. There are some major differences in Quebec because our education system is not like those in the rest of Canada.

Would you agree with that?

[Tiffany MacLennan]

Yes, I agree. I think targeted measures are the way to move forward.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much, Ms. MacLennan.

I will go to the Canadian Bar Association representatives next.

What do you think of Minister Miller's suggestion that immigration consultants have legitimately counselled international students to seek asylum?

That concerns you directly. Maybe there's a problem with these notorious immigration consultants.