Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2024

[Kamaljit Lehal]

Thank you for that question.

There is indeed. We've been using the term “bad actors” in the system, and international students have been misguided and misled on a number of fronts. With respect to refugee claims, on that point alone, you have students here from countries that are known to be refugee-producing countries.

Can you hear me?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Let Madam Lehal finish, and then we'll go to—

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Excuse me, Ms. Lehal. I was speaking to the chair because I wanted to know how much time I have left.

You can continue your answer. Go ahead.

[Kamaljit Lehal]

With respect to students being guided to make refugee claims by consultants, that may indeed be something that's happening.

We also need to realize that a number of students come from refugee-producing countries. There are human rights violations in a number of countries, such as Colombia, Nigeria, Ghana, China, India—these countries.

There are a number of reasons why students may not, when they first come in, make a refugee claim. They may have very legitimate reasons to make a claim. If you come in on a student permit, you don't have to deal with the uncertainty of making a refugee claim, which is complex, but then there are circumstances that may compel them to do that because the country conditions are such that—

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Also, the situation in their country may change after they arrive and during their studies. There are reasons why they might claim asylum.

[Kamaljit Lehal]

That's correct. Circumstances can change.

Sorry, there's just a bit of a delay.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Yes, I know.

Welcome to my world.

Mr. Chair, I'm taking advantage of my allotted time to reiterate the notice of motion I tabled on November 18 so we can debate and adopt it. I believe your office received it on November 19 or thereabouts.

I apologize to the witnesses, but I think this motion can be dealt with fairly quickly.

Just to jog my colleagues' memory, I'll read it again. The motion reads as follows:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee undertake a study on the implications for Canada of the measures announced by Donald Trump during the U.S. presidential campaign regarding the deportation of persons who are in the United States illegally, as well as on the Canadian federal government's plan to ensure border security and compliance with federal immigration statutes and policies; That the committee invite the following witnesses to appear: 1. for two hours each, accompanied by senior officials from their respective departments: a. Mr. Marc Miller, Minister of Immigration and Citizenship; b. Mr. Dominic LeBlanc, Minister of Public Safety; 2. for one hour each: a. Ms. Kristen Hillman, Canadian Ambassador to the United States; b. Mr. David L. Cohen, U.S. Ambassador to Canada; 3. as well as any witnesses the committee considers necessary, in accordance with the usual practices of the committee; and That the committee prioritize this study and report its findings to the House.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

I have three speakers on my list.

I would like to have direction from the committee members, because MP Kwan did not have her six minutes.

I just want direction from the committee. Do we release the witnesses or do we hold them?

[An hon. member]

Hold them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Hold them. Okay, thank you.

Dear witnesses, there's a motion that is in order on the floor, so we have to deal with that. Please relax a bit, and I will ask you to come back. I'm sorry for the interruption. Your input is very much appreciated, so please bear with us.

With that, I have MP Kwan, then Mr. Chiang and then Mr. Kmiec.

MP Kwan, go ahead.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

As you've noted, we have about 15 minutes before the end of the committee. I have yet to ask my six minutes of questions. This happens to me quite a lot—welcome to my world—where committee members make a motion and then cut off the opportunity for the NDP to ask any questions.

In the spirit of that, Mr. Chair, I move adjournment of debate on the motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Adjournment of the debate is a non-debatable motion.

(Motion negatived: nays 9; yeas 1)

Will go to Mr. Chiang for debate.

[Paul Chiang, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank my committee member across for bringing the motion forward. I would like to make some friendly amendments to his motion.

In the first paragraph where it stops at “policies”, I would add “that the study consist of no less than four meetings”. That's at the first paragraph.

In the last paragraph, where it says, “That the committee prioritize this study,” I would like to add, “alongside the international student study and the human smuggler/passport study, and that the committee”.

The next change is, after “the House”, it should say “and that pursuant to Standing Order 109, the government table a comprehensive response to the report.”

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you.

Now we'll go to debate on the amendment.

I have MP Kwan.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

There's a point of order.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Chair, I think it's a friendly amendment.

That being case, isn't it enough for me to agree?

It doesn't seem to work that way. I didn't say anything.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

MP Kwan.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Commenting then on the motion, I think it's interesting that the committee—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

You are speaking to the amendment, right?

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Yes, this is on the amendment to the motion that is accepted as a friendly amendment, from what I gather, by the mover. Really, on the whole, there is intention for this committee to sort of bypass the stages in terms of engaging in debate around business of the committee.

What's interesting as well, Mr. Chair, is that this happens quite a lot. Two meetings ago, we actually had a motion on the floor. The motion speaks to calling for the committee to:

undertake a study of no more than two meetings to examine the temporary public policy to facilitate temporary resident visas for certain extended family affected by the crisis in Gaza; including the challenges that the Government of Canada faces in facilitating the exit of Gazans and that Canada is not the only country that faces these challenges;

[Paul Chiang, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Go ahead, MP Chiang.

[Paul Chiang, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

This is not relevant to the amendment that we have before the committee right now.