Evidence of meeting #119 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was students.
A video is available from Parliament.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thank you. It would be very useful to have that on record as well.
To the question around the cap, I believe, Mr. Patel and Mr. Jacob, you both answered that as long as it meets needs.
Can you be more specific about what you mean by “needs”? Can you define “needs”? Do you mean labour market needs? What does that mean exactly? Some people might interpret it to mean something else.
Let's start with Mr. Jacob, and then we'll go to Mr. Patel.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Schools of Nursing
Thank you.
I think that's what I was saying to one of your colleagues. There are the needs of the industry in terms of health care, but there are also the education sector's needs. We need to look at the projection of needed Ph.D.s and master's for education, but also master's for clinical as well. There are different avenues, so I think there needs to be a very detailed analysis of what that would look like.
When I'm thinking of a cap, I'm responding to the need to have ethical recruitment and some very clear parameters for bringing in international students, but also it's to meet the needs of our health care sector and our academic institutions.
NDP
President and Chief Executive Officer, Vancouver Community College
I would define “needs” as working with ourselves and the B.C. government to identify what our labour market needs are in specific regions so that the provincial government has some autonomy to ask public post-secondary institutions to ensure we are training the workforce that will meet those labour market needs, taking into consideration how those needs will be filled between domestic students and non-domestic residents.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Mr. Patel, can you elaborate on the implications of this public policy now for VCC specifically? I'm aware that, in the news, the VCC Faculty Association has already mentioned there will be layoffs.
What are the implications from a staff point of view as well as for access to programs for both domestic and international students?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Vancouver Community College
At this point, we have not announced any layoffs. We are just managing our enrolment in hopes that we can minimize any employment impact.
We do anticipate the declining numbers would have an impact on not just providing programs that fit the labour market needs, as I addressed earlier, but also potentially some of those revenues that we have to better support our other diverse student body, particularly the programs for the blind, deaf, hard of hearing and visually impaired, and a number of the programs that we have for our new immigrants.
Many institutions use the net revenue from international students to help support some of those program areas, but the biggest hit could be in the area of the labour market.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
On the issue of implications, I know that you were not consulted. Were you made aware of what the government's goal is with respect to their announcement at any point in time?
I'll put that first to Mr. Jacob, and then Mr. Patel.
December 2nd, 2024 / 4:20 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Schools of Nursing
I'm not aware of any of that information being shared.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Vancouver Community College
I'm not aware of any information being shared other than that there was supposed to be a cap on international student numbers, but there was no consultation.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
There's the issue of differences in regions, provinces and so on. There are some issues with respect to international students, especially with the bad actors, meaning the people who are fraudulently engaged in bringing international students to Canada with both consultants and the potential involvement with the institutions, particularly those from the private sector.
My quick question for Mr. Patel is this: Is there a difference between provinces, and is the government's approach to addressing this using this sort of broad scope approach ineffective?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Vancouver Community College
I can only speak about the province of B.C. We have public post-secondary codes of practice and standards that we follow if we use a third party. I know that is not consistent across the country.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal
Thank you very much.
We have about six minutes left, so I think we'll go two, two, one and one. You know what I mean. We'll have two minutes for the Conservatives, two minutes for the Liberals, one minute for the NDP and one minute for the Bloc.
Before I waste any more time, I will go to Mr. Redekopp for two minutes.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
First of all, you weren't consulted, Mr. Jacob.
There's an urgent demand here across Canada for skilled workers in the crucial sectors, including health. Can you explain how this uncertainty, caused by the abrupt changes announced by the Liberal government, has created an impact on Canada's reputation as a destination for top talent?
You mentioned the master's and Ph.D. students. Can you elaborate on that?
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Schools of Nursing
Do you mean the reputation itself?
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Schools of Nursing
I can only speak to the effects. What we're seeing is decreased enrolment.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
You're doing that out of decreased enrolment. What other impacts do you see with regard to that? What are your student numbers going to look like?
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Schools of Nursing
There are multiple impacts. When you're looking at the functioning of any academic institution, it's not in silos. If you're going to affect the budgets of universities or colleges, you will see that all sectors are affected, including nursing.
If you're looking at the college sector, with the PSW programs that have been affected by these international caps, the caps end up affecting the number of faculty available within the different departments. We're looking at not being able to deliver as many nurses as we would like to in order to respond to the needs.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
I'll ask this of Mr. Patel.
How do you see the reputation here? How would you describe the Liberals' motivation in addressing this? Could they have made better policy choices in the past to avoid the outcome we've seen today?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Vancouver Community College
If we had gone through a more comprehensive consultation process and been able to work collectively with the provinces and institutions, we might have got to a better place. I think André referenced this.
On the ground, when you speak to our folks who are overseas, like our staff who fly overseas, the Canada brand has taken a significant hit. It's going to take some time to rebuild that reputation back up as a steady destination and a high-quality education destination.
Liberal
Liberal
Shafqat Ali Liberal Brampton Centre, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses.
My question is for Mr. Côté.
With international students accounting for a significant share of tuition revenue in Ontario's post-secondary institutions, do you think the federal government's reform will help reduce the risk associated with the overreliance on this revenue stream?
