Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2024

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

With respect to the CBSA, to be clear, it's not that they just can't show up on a particular day; it's that they don't think they need to show up.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

That's what it is.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

That makes absolutely no sense, because that's a huge piece of the whole puzzle that we're trying to look at here. I think I need to raise the fact that that's not—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

We can always subpoena them if they say no.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

We might want to consider that, yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

We always have protocols in place that we can use as a committee.

Do you see what I mean? This is what they are saying; we are not accepting that.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

I guess that would be—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Acceptance is one thing, declining is one thing; we as a committee accepting that is the other. A committee has its own destiny, so if committee members want to subpoena them—they think that they must be here—we can always bring them here through that process.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Okay, so—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Are you okay with that? Can I go to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe after you?

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

If that's the case, I don't think I've ever been involved in subpoenaing somebody before. Is that a motion we have to make? How does that work?

If it is, I would like to move a motion that we subpoena the CBSA to come to this committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

I'll come back to you, Brad, and I will give you the floor, but perhaps we can listen for one second to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

First of all, this is new to all of us. I think it comes as a bit of a surprise to everyone. Even though we're all surprised, I'm not sure we need to go as far as subpoenaing witnesses. However, I think those people need to understand that we can do so if we want to.

The clerk can contact them again to tell them that we really want them to be here and that, if they categorically refuse, we can subpoena them.

That's how I would handle it. Before we get to the subpoenas, I would let them know we can do that and it's better for them to come and testify and not get a subpoena that might get them into kind of a crazy situation. I think some journalists would be interested to know that people have been subpoenaed to testify before a committee.

If I were one of those people, I would understand the seriousness of my refusal to appear before the committee. We can play nice with them and make them understand that it's really not a good idea. I would leave that in the hands of the clerk.

That's what I suggest. Committee members may agree with me, or maybe they would prefer to issue a subpoena right away.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

That's an excellent idea. We will do that.

I have a couple of speakers. I have MP Zahid. Mr. Redekopp still has the floor. If he wants, I can go quickly to MP Kwan, and then come back to him.

Okay.

I have MP Zahid, and then we'll go to MP Kwan.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

I just wanted to check if the officials from IRCC are already scheduled for Monday. Will we have two hours with them, or will we have other witnesses also?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

No, we have one hour with them.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

In the second hour, who's coming?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

We haven't planned that yet. We can figure that out.

MP Kwan, go ahead.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

It would seem to me that we're not ready to go on Monday. I don't think it's good enough to just have IRCC officials before us. I think we should go back to request the RCMP and CBSA to appear before the committee.

I don't know if subpoenaing them is the right approach or the next step. My understanding is that the committee could move a motion to compel them to come before we subpoena them to come. Maybe there are some intermediate steps to get there.

The other thing that I think is absolutely critical—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

[Technical difficulty—Editor] see the consensus, so I'll go back to MP Kwan.

Go to your original motion, then, because—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I'm sorry. I'm not done yet with my comments related to this matter.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Okay.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Related to it as well is that I don't think it's good enough for the ministers to say that they're not available. I would like to ensure that the clerk continues to pursue the availability of the ministers so that they can come to the committee. I think they need to come and answer these questions. We can't just say, “Oh, shoot, they can't come”, and then move on. There has to be really good justification for why they can't come.

I think this is an important matter. We need the ministers here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

I'm going to close this, MP Chiang, because I have to go on. The thing is that this was not part of the business. I have heard enough from fellows. I think we might be able to continue with the debate, the way it's going on right now, unless you have a very compelling point.

[Paul Chiang, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Mr. Chair, I just wanted to remind the committee that we are still dealing with my amendment and Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe's motion. We need to vote on that before we carry on.

Thank you.