Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Dec. 12th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Good morning.

I call this meeting to order. We are meeting in public. Welcome to meeting number 120 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration.

Today's meeting will be the last meeting of 2024. I'm sure you will enjoy Christmas and New Year's with your family, friends and constituents.

On behalf of myself and the committee members, I would like to wish the staff—the support staff, the clerk, the analysts, the interpreters—a very merry Christmas, happy holidays and happy new year.

As well, honourable members, from myself and my family, I want to wish you a merry Christmas, happy new year and happy holidays.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. I would like to remind all participants of the following points.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. All comments should be addressed through the chair. Whether participating in person or via Zoom, please raise your hand if you wish to speak. The clerk and I will manage the speaking order as best we can.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee at the meeting convened on October 21, 2024, the committee is resuming its study of the recent reforms to the international student program.

Two witnesses who had been scheduled for November 28 were not available to appear today. They are Professor David Green of UBC, and Career Colleges Ontario.

Professor Green submitted speaking notes before his scheduled appearance of November 28.

Do members agree to have the speaking notes added to the evidence of today?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

[See appendix—Remarks by Professor David Green]

Regarding Career Colleges Ontario, although the deadline has passed, the clerk will offer them the option to submit a written brief.

Is that okay with the honourable members?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

[See appendix—Remarks by Career Colleges Ontario]

Thank you.

Mr. Clerk, please proceed with that.

On behalf of the committee members, I would now like to welcome our witnesses for the first hour.

From the Canadian Alliance of Student Associations, we have Mr. Nelson Chukwuma.

Mr. Chukwuma, welcome to the meeting.

From the Fédération des cégeps, we have Ms. Annie-Claude Laflamme.

Welcome, Ms. Laflamme.

We also have Ms. Vanesa Casanovas, international recruitment and immigration adviser.

Ms. Casanovas, welcome to the meeting.

You have up to five minutes for your opening remarks, after which we will proceed with the rounds of questions. I would ask you to please manage the time, because I will cut you off at five minutes.

With that, Mr. Chukwuma, I would love to welcome you to take the floor. You have up to five minutes for your opening statement.

Please go ahead.

[Nelson Chukwuma, Chair, Canadian Alliance of Student Associations]

Thank you for the time, Honourable Chair.

Good morning, Honourable Chair, esteemed committee members and fellow witnesses. I would like to begin my statement by recognizing that we are meeting today on the territory of the Anishinabe Algonquin nation.

My name is Nelson Chukwuma, and I am the chair of the Canadian Alliance of Student Associations, or CASA. CASA is a non-partisan, not-for-profit organization that represents students at colleges, polytechnics and universities from coast to coast. Through a formal partnership with the l'Union étudiante du Québec, we are a trusted national student voice. Together we represent 400,000 students across the country.

First, I'd like to thank the committee for the invitation for CASA to be a witness today. CASA recognizes that the immigration system has to work for Canada and that the government has committed to reducing total immigration levels. Our remarks today address how reforms to the international student program will impact post-secondary students in Canada, and our suggestions address how the reforms could better promote the nation's innovation and productivity.

Let me start by addressing the manner in which these reforms have been communicated. Changes have been announced sporadically, causing significant anxiety amongst international students, who are left uncertain about how to adapt or plan for their futures. Post-secondary institutions, too, are struggling to keep up, finding it difficult to provide students, both current and incoming, with accurate information about the new policies. We, therefore, urge the government to ensure that these reforms are communicated with greater clarity and precision and with adequate time for students and institutions to react.

In addition, we urge the federal government to lift restrictions on spousal work permits for undergraduate and master's students in short programs, and to avoid further restrictions on permits for spouses of Ph.D. and other graduate students. These limitations undermine Canada's commitment to family unification and have economic consequences. Spousal work restrictions risk deterring top talent and imposing unnecessary mental, economic and logistical challenges on international, mature students.

We are also concerned about the impacts of these changes on the educational experience of current students, both international and domestic. International tuition has become a vital funding component for Canada's post-secondary institutions. The abrupt reduction in international student enrolment has already resulted in job losses and program closures, particularly at colleges and polytechnics. We worry that these effects could escalate, potentially jeopardizing essential yet costly programs for domestic students, such as those in health and trades and those serving rural and remote populations.

Now, while the government continues to consider reforms to the international student program, we would also like to bring recommendations to the committee that could improve the program's economic impact and competitiveness.

First, recent changes are creating red tape around hands-on learning. International students should be able to participate in co-op terms and internships that are integrated into the curriculum of their program of study without the need to obtain a separate work permit. Work-integrated learning is a cornerstone of post-secondary education, equipping students with practical skills and real-world experience. By removing unnecessary barriers for international students to participate, we can not only enable them to succeed in their programs but also allow them to contribute specialized knowledge to Canadian employers as part of their studies.

Second, international Ph.D. students are exceptional contributors to Canada's academic and research landscape, often engaging in skilled employment, such as teaching and research assistantships, alongside their studies. However, under current policies, these employment hours do not count towards the Canadian experience class stream for permanent residency, creating unnecessary delays for international Ph.D. graduates seeking to settle in Canada. Recognizing the unique role of Ph.D. students as scholars and skilled workers, we recommend that formal employment hours worked during their studies be eligible for Canadian experience class requirements. This change would help retain top-tier talent, ensuring that these individuals contribute to Canada's innovation and economy in the long term.

Finally, given the fixed level for permanent immigration and the proven tendency of Canadian-trained foreign students to have long-term economic success in Canada, we recommend doubling the comprehensive ranking system points for Canadian post-secondary credentials to ensure that we retain top talent who are already in the country. We hope that our written submission is also insightful to the committee as you study the significant implications that the recent reforms to the international student program have on students and the post-secondary sector.

International students contribute substantially to Canada's innovation, productivity and cultural fabric. The government must, therefore, adopt measures to ensure that it continues to attract, support and retain world-class international students.

Thank you for your time, and I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chukwuma.

Now we will go to either Madame Laflamme or Madame Casanovas.

You have five minutes. Please go ahead.

[Annie-Claude Laflamme, Co-Chair of the International Affairs Committee, Fédération des cégeps]

Thank you.

On behalf of the Fédération des cégeps and its 48 members, I want to thank the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration for offering me this opportunity to appear. My name is Annie Claude Laflamme, and I am the assistant director of studies and student life at the Cégep de Jonquière. I am also the co‑chair of the international affairs committee of the Fédération des cégeps, which is the voluntary association of the 48 public colleges in Quebec. The Fédération promotes those colleges and represents their interests, and offers services and advice to support the CEGEPs in developing and in achieving their mission. It is also the official spokesperson and coordinating body for the CEGEPs, which, I would note, are the first level of postsecondary education in Quebec, this being why we are here today.

Since the reform of the international students program was announced by IRCC, which is Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, the consequences, whether immediate or anticipated, have generated serious concerns. In one year, no fewer than five major announcements have been made, with no details or coordination, sending a series of shock waves through the institutions and among the international student population. The measures announced include imposing a national cap on new student permit applications, changing the eligibility criteria for post-graduation work permits, and bringing in closed study permits. These are the reasons why the Fédération wants to bring the real risks involved in this reform to the committee's attention and provide details about figures about which there may be been some generalization.

The CEGEP system has experienced reasonable, controlled and ethical growth in its international student population over the years and does not present any risk to immigration programs or threaten the integrity of those programs. In 2023, that student population represented less than 5% of the total number of students in our system, accounting for about 9,000 students. That is the equivalent of 1.3% of study permit holders in Canada, a figure that is quite simply marginal. That constant growth has been achieved with a respectful eye to the regions' capacity to absorb newcomers and to labour market needs, and is in line with what the federal government and communities in Quebec have asked. The CEGEPs are therefore responsible actors and allies, and not the cause of the challenges IRCC must meet.

I also believe it is essential to add that the CEGEPs admit this student population with a view to the collective interest, not financial gain. Our system contributes to ameliorating labour market problems. This commitment can be seen in industries like forestry and early childhood education, and also healthcare. Since 2022, 467 graduates from outside Canada have entered and strengthened the healthcare system. In this case, what is striking is not the growth in the number of foreign students, but the growth in the significant contribution made to public services by CEGEPs. Mr. Miller has also repeatedly stated his objective of encouraging francophone immigration to Canada. I would note that the vast majority of our student population is francophone and attends francophone CEGEPs.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Madame Laflamme, could you please slow down a bit? I will give you extra time. It's hard on the interpreters. I'm sorry to interrupt you. You can start where you left off.

Thank you.

[Annie-Claude Laflamme]

I will go slower, with pleasure.

Despite the positive effects that the presence of international students has, the situation is becoming incoherent with these measures, one on top of another, that are undermining Canada's reputation as a study destination, and thus the ability of our programs and institutions to attract students. The federal government's announcements are heightening the vulnerability of international students and causing uncertainty, and are significantly affecting their success and their mental health.

Our mission, as a federation, is to guarantee that postsecondary education is accessible in all regions of Quebec. International students are one way of preserving access to essential programs in fields where workforce needs are crucial. Without them, the vitality of the programs would be affected and their survival might even be in jeopardy.

The CEGEPs play a unique strategic role by virtue of their contribution to regional dynamism and their contribution to Canada's economic objectives and labour market. They are a responsible model for attracting international talent and must be encouraged in what they do, not penalized by restrictive immigration measures. This is why we are making the following recommendations.

First, the autonomy and uniqueness of the CEGEPs, as strategic actors distinguished by their ethical approach and their contribution to regional development, the national economy and the promotion of French, must be recognized.

Second, the eligibility for post-diploma work permits of students who are enrolled in diploma of college studies programs and attestation of college studies programs at Quebec's 48 CEGEPs, on the terms that existed before November 1, 2024, must be preserved.

Third, we recommend that access to work permits for spouses of students, for all programs offered by CEGEPs, be preserved.

Fourth, people who have submitted an application for a study permit in order to continue their education at a different educational institution should be allowed to do so while waiting for their application to be processed if it was submitted before the expiry of their previous status.

And fifth, it is important that stakeholders be consulted and formal, structured discussions be held before any major change is made, to reduce uncertainty and negative impact on the ground.

In conclusion, I would note that Quebec's CEGEPs make an active contribution to training skilled labour and developing local communities. International students enrich our society and play a key role in its future. We ask that the federal government revisit these measures, in partnership with our system, in order to strike a balance between immigration considerations and the real needs of Quebec and Canada.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much, Madame Laflamme.

Now we will go to honourable members, starting with Mr. Kmiec.

Mr. Kmiec, please go ahead for six minutes.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I'll start with the student association first, since you're here, Mr. Chukwuma.

Was your organization consulted before these changes were announced and made?

[Nelson Chukwuma]

We have had conversations with IRCC, but for a lot of the announcements that were made, we weren't fully consulted.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

You said you were not “fully” consulted. Were you partially consulted?

[Nelson Chukwuma]

There were discussions had with members of our team and the home office staff, yes.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Was that before they were made public?

[Nelson Chukwuma]

That was before they were made public.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

You are the first person to tell me at this committee that an organization was consulted before the government announced these changes.

[Nelson Chukwuma]

Discussions are had because they impact the way our priorities are brought forward by students. It's important to bring those conversations up in given the way we do our government relations with the IRCC.

We weren't fully consulted on the announcements that were made.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Does your organization support the temporary cap on international students?

The pause is an answer.

[Nelson Chukwuma]

To be honest, sir, I don't think that question is for us to answer. We believe that you in government are the experts. You know what's best for the economic and social fabric of Canada.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

The government doesn't know what it's doing. I'm sorry, but that's why you're here. That's why we're doing this study now.

Does your organization have a position on making the cap permanent?

[Nelson Chukwuma]

Our position is always to protect students already in the system and to make sure that Canada has a high-value educational system, so in that regard, you can see that a lot of our recommendations are focused on those two values.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Does your organization support adding to the cap master's students and Ph.D. students?

[Nelson Chukwuma]

We have some recommendations on master's and Ph.D. students, specifically about making sure we're retaining top-tier talent with the caps we're putting in place. For example, for our recommendation on Ph.D. students, and doctoral students in particular, one of the things we're asking for is a reversal on spousal work permits, because we don't believe that students should have to choose between pursuing an education and keeping their families together.