Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Dec. 12th, 2024

[Nelson Chukwuma]

I go back to some of the things I've heard in my community. It's very concerning to international students because the message we put forth as Canada is one of having welcoming, loving and very kind people. A lot of the rhetoric being put out does not represent those values, in my opinion. A lot of the anti-immigration rhetoric that we're seeing is mostly affecting South Asian and Black students. These are students we have invited to come to this country to access our education system.

We have to think about that when we're putting out rhetoric, because Canada is a country that I, as well as our organization, believe to be welcoming and diverse. These students are important for the diversity and cultural fabric of Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much.

Now we will go to the second round, with Mr. Kmiec for five minutes.

Please go ahead.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I hope we can do this part quickly.

I'm moving my motion from December 5, and I'm hoping to do this all within five minutes if we can get agreement from the committee. This is the motion to produce the documents that I requested and that this committee agreed to on October 31. The reason I'm doing this is that the department did not follow the directions of the committee. We specifically asked not for some but for all the redactions under section 14, “Federal-provincial affairs”, and section 21, “Operations of Government”, to be provided to the committee.

In the briefing note provided to the committee, four redactions for government operations are still there, so the department did not comply with the committee's request. I'm now making an order to produce the document, as well as annex A, annex B and annex C—everything, the whole document—and for the redactions to be applied exactly in the way we have asked for them.

I tried to do this the nice way. I note that the associate deputy minister said they tried to do it in a manner that was respectful of privacy, accuracy, scope and language. I submit to you that it was disrespectful of the committee's motion and that he be made to produce the document exactly in the way we had discussed.

The email sent by the clerk asked that these matters be kept confidential. I note that we have kept them confidential—I have kept them confidential—but if we don't pass this motion, I'm more than happy to read the entire briefing note into the public record.

I want these documents, and every single member of this committee, especially on the opposition side, deserves to know exactly what went into the changes made to the international student program. There is a lot of relevant information in the briefing notes we have now, but we need all of the information. That is why this motion is necessary. It will order IRCC to produce the international student program briefing notes within 30 days and all of the redactions we've asked for. We've been reasonable. There are three types of redactions the government can keep, but it has to stop hiding the information.

That is the motion I'm moving. It was put on notice on December 5.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you. The motion is in order and debatable.

We have two people on the list: MP Ali and MP Chiang.

MP Ali, please go ahead.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just want to thank the witnesses for being here today. We have a very important study today.

It was Conservatives who were blaming international students and immigrants for creating the housing crisis. Now—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Come back to the—

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

I'm coming back to the point.

Now IRCC has taken measures, and we have witnesses for our study on international students. It's a very important study. Witnesses are here.

My friend brought this motion asking that we stop this study, go into debate and waste witnesses' time. I suggest that we listen to the witnesses, and then we can get into this motion and deal with it. That way, we will not waste their time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Is it a motion, or is it just—

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

I just wanted to share my thoughts.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

They were your thoughts. Okay. There's no motion. Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Chiang.

[Paul Chiang, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Since we have the witnesses here, as my colleague mentioned, I move to adjourn the debate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

We have a non-debatable motion to adjourn the debate. We'll have a recorded vote.

(Motion negatived: nays 6; yeas 5)

We'll go back to debate on the motion. I have Mr. Chiang, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe and MP Kwan on the list to debate.

Mr. Chiang, please go ahead.

[Paul Chiang, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to move an amendment to Mr. Kmiec's motion. At the end of the motion, I would like to add the following: “and that if the requested document is not provided without redaction, the committee invite the deputy minister of IRCC to appear for one hour in camera to discuss any redactions that IRCC did not remove as per the Access to Information Act.”

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

There is an amendment on the floor. Members are now speaking to the amendment.

Mr. Kmiec, please go ahead.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Does Ms. Kwan want to go before me?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

I asked Ms. Kwan, but she wants to speak to the motion.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

With regard to the amendment, did you mean the deputy minister or the associate deputy minister?

[Paul Chiang, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

I meant the deputy minister.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

The deputy minister is Harpreet Kochhar. The person who signed off on this is the associate deputy minister, Scott Harris. If you're going to throw a bureaucrat under the bus by not having him respond, you should have the correct one.

I've had a good working relationship with the deputy minister. It's the associate deputy minister who's taking direction from your side to not disclose things properly. He put it in writing that he was not complying with requests from the committee for the production of documents.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Son of a gun....

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

I'm sorry, Mr. McLean. Let's have just one person speaking, please. You know that it's very hard for me and the interpreters to manage the meeting otherwise.

Is there any more discussion on the amendment brought forward by Mr. Chiang to Mr. Kmiec's motion?

Mr. Kmiec, please go ahead.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Just to confirm, if they don't comply on the 31st day—at the next meeting of this committee potentially—we would have someone from the bureaucracy thrown under the bus because you don't want them to disclose the briefing note. Also, this would be in camera, so they would silently get badgered by me. The public deserves to know.

[Paul Chiang, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Kmiec.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

I'm sorry. Just hold on. Let me acknowledge you.

Mr. Kmiec, are you done?

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

I'm done.