Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 7th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I call this meeting to order.

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to meeting number 16 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration.

For health and safety, the Board of Internal Economy requires that the committee adhere to the following health protocols, which are in effect until June 23, 2022. All individuals wishing to enter the parliamentary precinct must be fully vaccinated against COVID-19. All those attending the meeting in person must wear a mask, except for members who are at their place during proceedings. Please contact the clerk of the committee for further information on preventive measures for health and safety. As the chair, I will enforce these measures. I thank you for your co-operation.

As to hybrid meeting information, today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of November 25, 2021.

I would like to outline a few rules for everyone to follow.

Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You may speak in the official language of your choice. At the bottom of your screen, you may choose “floor”, “English” or “French”. The “raise hand” feature is on the main toolbar should you wish to speak. As a reminder, all comments should be addressed through the chair. When you're not speaking, your microphone should be muted.

The committee clerk and I will maintain a speaking list for all members to assist in managing our time and to avoid having to cut anyone off. I will hold up a card when there is one minute left and when there are 30 seconds left, and a red card to show that your time is up. I would ask you to please keep an eye out for these cards.

Ms. Lalonde, you raised your hand.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to bring my motion forward, if that's okay.

I can read it to the committee members.

That, the committee invite IRCC officials to appear for two hours, in public, on the Differential Outcomes in Immigration study and that any resulting undertakings—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, but there's no interpretation. One second. Let us check.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

I will be happy to repeat my motion.

That, the committee invite IRCC officials to appear for two hours, in public, on the Differential Outcomes in Immigration study and that any resulting undertakings from the meeting be made publicly available in advance of the committee members' consideration of the draft report.

I ask that this motion be taken into consideration as quickly as possible, due to the time sensitivity. I certainly hope that members will support it, because it would give instructions, if it's the will of the committee, so the clerk can process the ask to have the officials at our next meeting.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Go ahead, Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm not opposed in principle, but I think we want to ensure the committee is able to continue its regularly scheduled activities as well.

I would like to propose an amendment to add at the end of the motion, “during the Easter recess”, so that the meeting would take place during the Easter recess and we don't lose time on the important work we're doing. I would also like to propose that we add “the minister and” ahead of “IRCC officials”. Of course, the minister doesn't have to come, but to give the minister an opportunity to appear with his officials is appropriate. The minister is ultimately accountable for the decisions of the department, and I don't see why we wouldn't give him the opportunity.

Those are my proposed amendments. If we can accept those, we can proceed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you.

We now have an amendment. Ms. Lalonde has moved her motion and the 48 hours' notice was given. Mr. Genuis has moved an amendment, so we have an amendment on the floor.

Go ahead, Ms. Kwan.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Speaking to the amendment, I don't oppose the idea of having a special CIMM committee meeting during the Easter break in order to facilitate this request. It's not like me to say that we shouldn't request the minister to come back; however, the minister did come to this committee already. I think for the purpose of this motion, we really want to drill down and get officials to answer questions and provide undertakings to committee members so that we can complete our report.

I suggest that we park the request for the minister to come forward and have the officials come forward, because we really want to get down to getting the documents and asking for sometimes technical questions to be answered by the officials so we can get on with it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

The clerk advises that I need to clarify before we go into further debate on this amendment.

Mr. Genuis is moving two amendments. He will have to move one amendment at a time. The first is that it is during the Easter break. The second is that we invite the minister. You will have to move your first amendment, deal with it, and then come back to the second amendment.

Go ahead, Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Madam Chair, on that and in the interest of working in the spirit of collaboration, I'll leave behind the component on the minister, given Ms. Kwan's comments, and just move the Easter recess amendment. Hopefully that amendment will pass and allow us to pass the motion quickly and move forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Mr. Genuis.

Mr. Genuis has moved an amendment that the meeting on the motion proposed by Miss Lalonde be held during the Easter break. Are all members okay with that?

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Madam Chair—

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Madam Chair, I would like to speak.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Please raise your hand.

We will go by the speaking list. We have Ms. Lalonde, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe and then Mr. El-Khoury.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

I'll allow my fellow colleagues to speak.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

We will go to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe and then Mr. El-Khoury.

Go ahead, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

To organize that meeting during the Easter break, we would still need to set a date today, as we don't have many weeks left in our ridings.

I will send my schedule to my friend Mr. Genuis, but I can tell you that I have a lot of work to do in my riding, as we want to take advantage of any time we have over there. If I was at least given a specific date, it would be easier for me to accept this amendment, but “during the Easter recess” is too vague.

As you know, I am close to my constituents, who expect me to meet with them during that recess. I would like to be given a date, as it is much too vague for me if we are just told that the meeting will be held during the Easter break.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you.

Now we have Mr. El-Khoury and then Mr. Dhaliwal.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good morning and welcome to all the witnesses.

Ms. Lalonde moved a motion and Mr. Genuis moved an amendment. I think we should discuss Ms. Lalonde's motion and, once that is done, we could get back to discussing the amendment Mr. Genuis proposed.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Mr. El-Khoury, to clarify that, when an amendment is moved, we have to deal with the amendment first and then we can go back to the motion. Procedurally, we have to deal with the amendment.

We have Mr. Dhaliwal, Mr. Ali and then Mr. Genuis.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I support Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe's idea. In that particular week, my constituents are celebrating Easter, Ramadan, Khalsa Day and Vaisakhi. There are many events going on in my constituency during the constituency week. I want to spend most of my time with all the communities that are celebrating these religious holidays.

I would support Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe in not having a meeting in that particular week.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Mr. Dhaliwal.

Go ahead, Mr. Ali.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

I echo Mr. Dhaliwal and Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

I want to put my case to my committee colleagues. I have three kids, aged 13, 12 and nine and a half. They are looking forward to these two weeks, as are my constituents. We are going to have Ramadan, Vaisakhi, Easter and other events, so I would appeal to all of you, please, to not push us into those two weeks over Easter.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Go ahead, Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Respectfully, the context is that members of the government are putting forward a motion. I thought at a point when there's already.... I don't know what I can say, given that....

It's a matter of public record on the notice that there was consideration of a draft report at the last meeting, so people already know that there's already been consideration of a draft report on this subject. We have a proposal for another witness, and I want to accommodate that, if that's the desire of members, but my point is that since the government brought forward this proposal for additional witnesses, let's not slow down the work of the committee that needs to happen. We have limited time slots during sitting weeks. I'm trying to accommodate what the government and members want by saying we could set aside two hours in a two-week period.

Madam Chair, I don't know if I can amend my own amendment. I think maybe I can. I think I would like to add after “during the Easter recess” the words “following consultations with members about their availability”.