Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 31st, 2022

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Mr. Langford, did you have some concerns?

[Vance P. E. Langford]

Well, I agree with Mr. Kurland, and I don't have concerns about a prescribed list. If the minister designates a list of prescribed foreign insurers, CILA would be fine with that. It's just a matter of public protection and protection of people who come here with some foreign insurance that doesn't ultimately pay their medical bills, and the Canadian system has to cover that.

The other note about insurance is that there is currently a gap in the system for super visas, whereby a parent or grandparent coming on that visa needs to get insurance for one year, but if they enter Canada and remain for two years, they could effectively save money and let their insurance lapse while they're here. That is something to note as a concern. They would be offside their visa, they would be non- compliant, and there could be potential consequences for that; but if they remain in Canada, they could effectively let their insurance lapse. This has to be balanced with the concerns that were raised by the Arab Community Centre of Toronto about the overall cost. The insurance costs are very significant.

Hopefully, what we could get to is a reduced cost with a foreign insurer who is reputable and vetted, so there isn't a gap whereunder parents or grandparents are letting it lapse while they're here.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Ms. Amad or Ms. Salman, do you have a thought on that?

[Rasha Salman]

Dima, I can take this.

Actually, to commence on the insurance issue, one of the things that we thought could help is allowing parents or grandparents to finance their own stay and to allow flexibility in the insurance coverage by allowing it to be according to the length of stay. Practically, why should they be forced to buy for a year if they want to stay for only three months, for example?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, Mr. Redekopp. Your time is up.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

We will now proceed to Mr. El-Khoury.

Mr. El-Khoury, you will have six minutes. Please begin.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to welcome our guests. We're very grateful to them for testifying before the committee.

My first question is for Dima Amad.

Ms. Amad, as you know, the super visa is a facilitation tool designed to protect visitors by ensuring that they can be financially supported by their host children or grandchildren and that they have insurance coverage so they can receive emergency medical care.

Do you believe members of your community would benefit from being able to purchase coverage from international insurers?

[Dima Amad]

Thank you.

The truth is that for our community the insurance is very costly, and it's prohibitive for many families to bring their parents and grandparents here. That's why one of the recommendations, as Rasha mentioned, is to have it based on the length of stay.

I might have missed a bit of the question at the beginning because I didn't realize that I was only on the French channel, but for the communities we serve, having flexibility in the insurance and having the ability to purchase from the outside is definitely something that might reduce the costs, so we would welcome it.

However, at the end of the day, we think this is a temporary measure until they are reunited with their families through a proper sponsorship program.

I am not sure if I answered the question.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

It's good.

I'd like to ask Mr. Kurland and Mr. Langford a question based on Ms. Amad's response.

I have two cases in my riding where the grandparents have come to visit the children and grandchildren several times. They are now over 70, and they find the cost of insurance so steep that they have had to withdraw their visa application. Therefore, they will not be able to come visit their family.

I would like to hear what you would say to them. Do you have a suggestion, recommendation or proposal for us as to how we could bring down the cost of insurance while still ensuring medical care as needed or in emergency situations?

[Richard Kurland]

There is a very practical solution. The super visa is not mandatory. People can apply to come to Canada with temporary status for a limited time.

Who says they have to apply to come to Canada for 12 months or two years? They can choose to come for a few weeks, a month or two months. The most important thing is that an operational guideline is needed: If the parent or grandparent applies for two to three months and the officer is not satisfied, the family must be allowed to amend the application or apply for a super visa. They should start with a standard application for a short visit, a short stay in Canada, and then they can amend the application if the officer requires that they apply for a super visa.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Mr. Langford, do you have anything to add? I'd like to hear what you have to say about this.

[Vance P. E. Langford]

I would agree with the other witnesses who have said that the cost of buying insurance for a full year if you're not going to be here doesn't make sense. Mr. Kurland is suggesting that a parent or grandparent who is elderly does not apply for a super visa, but instead applies for a temporary resident visa and then has insurance for an appropriate period when they are coming to Canada, so that they are reducing the cost.

We would not be in favour of simply waiving all insurance requirements so that an elderly person could come to Canada without medical insurance. That would not be advisable, but I think there are creative ways to reduce the cost, and I think they have been mentioned by the other witnesses.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you.

I have another question for Ms. Amad.

With respect to bringing one's parents or grandparents to Canada for an extended stay, I'm sure you have had the opportunity to see the impact of that. Can you share with the committee what you have observed in terms of the economic, social and cultural value of family reunification?

I hope the interpretation is correct.

I hope the translation is.... If not, I will try to do it in English.

[Dima Amad]

No. That's fine.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting. The time is up for Mr. El-Khoury. You will get an opportunity in the second round.

We will now proceed to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe. You have six minutes. Please begin.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to thank all the witnesses today, who are taking the time to help us formulate our recommendations and study this bill.

Mr. Kurland, I am a little confused about something. The length of stay now granted with the super visa will lead to applications for permanent residence in better conditions. However, according to what has been stated, you need to ensure that the family member voluntarily leaves Canada once the visit is over.

Therefore, on the one hand, they are told they must return home, and on the other, they are told to extend their stay so that they can apply for permanent residence. Do you not see an institutional contradiction there?

[Richard Kurland]

That contradiction is provided for in the legislation. It's the doctrine of dual intent. One can simultaneously intend to stay as a permanent resident and intend to stay with temporary status.

Officially, it's a huge contradiction, but that's how our system works.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Exactly, that's our system. Shouldn't we try to improve it, then? This dual intent issue comes up in a number of other programs, including the international student program, where we tell them to go back to their country once they complete their studies. It's kind of the same thing with this bill and the system as it is. Isn't there a way to fix the dual intent issue once and for all?

[Richard Kurland]

Well, try as we might…

In December 2021, I believe the Prime Minister instructed the minister to take it easy and let a married couple into Canada without a hitch, for example, instead of putting the application for temporary status on hold while the permanent residence application was being processed.

That kind of instruction was needed to address the contradiction in the law.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Shouldn't this issue be resolved with something more substantive than “taking it easy”? In my opinion, “take it easy” might not be the best solution in a G7 country.

I'd like to hear Mr. Langford's opinion. He represents Canada's immigration lawyers.

[Vance P. E. Langford]

I think if your main point is suggesting that there's a problem on the back end with super visa holders, their compliance with the expiry of their visa and their leaving Canada, that compliance issue exists for all people who enter Canada temporarily. Enforcement really does fall to Canada Border Services Agency when people are seeking admission to the country, and also if they're overstays. It is a major problem for the country, and for every country in fact. We're not unique in Canada. We have to deal with people who overstay.

I don't think the issue is unique to super visa holders. The one thing that CILA said in their opening statement is that the change from two years to five years weights it more in favour of these people severing ties with the country of origin, not maintaining their residence and being less inclined to leave Canada. That would be the reason that we actually don't see the change as necessary from two years to five years for a single stay.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Langford.

Ms. Salman, I would like to ask you a question. Two weeks ago, Mr. Seeback, who introduced this bill, told us that some felt the income threshold should be eliminated.

Do you have an opinion on that statement?

[Rasha Salman]

Thank you.

At ACCT we know that sometimes immigrants living here may not have a very high income, but their parents living abroad have assets and resources. This is why we included the recommendation to give the option for parents to finance their stay. When local immigrants have to meet a certain income threshold, sometimes if they are below that threshold, this prohibits them from bringing their parents from abroad. In fact, there are resources that can be used. The immigrants just don't have them; the parents have them. We do believe that yes, the income threshold should be studied and perhaps lowered.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

How much time do I have left, Madam Chair?