Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Oct. 7th, 2022

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Witnesses, I am truly sorry. We could have resolved this in two minutes, but some people wanted to stretch it out.

I'll try to save us some time.

I think the last amendment that we received is too similar to the previous one, which was negatived. Consequently, I don't think it's even admissible. We could go immediately to the vote, since that would save us time and the witnesses could then take part in the meeting.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you.

Mr. Hallan, you have the floor.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

There have been things that have come to light after that report came out from the Afghan committee, so I think Ms. Kwan's motion is very concise and very clear. We need to continue to stand up for those who are being persecuted, because a lot of them have been exempt and continue to be hunted down by the Taliban.

Instead of delaying more and more and putting up motions that are very similar to one another just to delay more time, let's get to Ms. Kwan's motion, and let's respect the witnesses who are here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Mr. Hallan.

Go ahead, Mrs. Lalonde.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

With all due respect to my colleagues, that's why my first thought was for our witnesses at the very beginning.

The witnesses have taken the time to come and testify before the committee.

We're conducting a discussion on the committee's priorities. However, what my colleague is proposing will take up an enormous amount of time.

I must say I'm a bit surprised. We've conducted a study on the acceptance rate of foreign students and now we're considering a report on processing times.

After discussing that, the committee decided to continue with the motions so that, in the coming months, we could continue drafting the reports, such as the one on informal caregivers. Earlier we discussed the motion introduced by my colleague Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

I don't think my colleagues realize that what our colleague is requesting will take up a lot of time. We've been studying it for six months. I would never say that the situation in Afghanistan isn't critical or that we shouldn't continue making every possible effort to provide our assistance.

However, I believe the committee wants to try to help the government understand the other issues that it considers important.

In my view, the proposed amendment is very minor and intended to allow my colleague Ms. Kwan's motion to move forward. It would also enable us to undertake other studies during the current and next sessions.

I'm therefore somewhat surprised at the way the situation is unfolding because I made this proposal openly and transparently. My aim was to emphasize that many problems concern immigration and that they're all important. It's true that it's important to discuss Afghanistan, but it's important to discuss all countries.

I didn't want to offend anyone; I was just trying to make everyone understand that the committee has many upcoming studies and reports and that inviting all these people could slow down its work. We've been studying this for six months, and ministers have appeared before the committee. I'm not saying that the response has or hasn't been good. What I'm saying is that the committee could hear from only two ministers for one hour each. That would enable us to continue our work. That's why I introduced this amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Mrs. Lalonde.

Is there any further debate?

Seeing none, we'll vote on the amendment moved by Mrs. Lalonde.

(Amendment negatived: nays 6; yeas 5 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

We have the motion moved by Ms. Kwan on the floor. Is there any debate on the motion?

Mrs. Lalonde, go ahead.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Again, I want to reiterate to my colleagues that this motion is significantly important, but the amount of time, which this committee may be opposed to, could impact other very important studies that we would like to go forward. As I said, I don't dispute the rationale, the importance; I'm just trying to be practical and pragmatic.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Mr. Sidhu, go ahead.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Going back to what my colleague said about the importance of witnesses taking the time to be here, we all knew witnesses were scheduled to be here at this meeting. We also know that on Tuesday we're going to have a subcommittee discussion on anything that the members want to talk about.

I just don't understand why we are wasting the witnesses' time, when this is such a substantial motion that's been put forward. I think we need to talk it through. We need to look at it more in depth.

We've seen over 21,000 folks from Afghanistan who have now arrived in our country. We're making progress, but I do believe it's important. It's a priority to talk about it, but I think this is not the right time to do it. We need to be aware. All of us knew the schedule. We all knew witnesses were coming today, but for some reason, some members on this committee decided to bring a motion today, even though they knew we could talk about it on Tuesday.

If you're saying we can rush through it, that's not the way. It's not practical. We all know that there are many other discussions, many other studies, to be had. There are many different points of immigration that we need to discuss with many different witnesses on many different motions. But pushing this forward just because you knew witnesses were going to be here today, I don't think that's sincere. I think we need to wait until Tuesday to carry on this discussion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

We have Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, and then Mr. Ali.

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, go ahead.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I find it somewhat amusing that the Liberals put this on us. We already know how everyone's going to vote, and we'll vote the same way on Tuesday.

I truly apologize to the witnesses. I believe you've noticed that one party is stealing all your time, even though it knows perfectly well how this will end.

I just wanted to set the record straight. It's all well and good to play the victim, but, in the end, we know how we're going to vote. Personally, I would stop the discussion, go to the vote and let the witnesses speak.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

We have Mr. Ali, and then Mr. El-Khoury.

Mr. Ali, go ahead.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I agree with MP Sidhu. We all knew we were going to listen to witnesses and this meeting was scheduled. I think we could have brought these motions after listening to the witnesses.

I feel sorry for our witnesses, and I apologize. I realize their time is important. They have taken the time out to join this meeting, and we got into this situation.

My suggestion to all of my colleagues is to listen to the witnesses first, and then we can get into the business of the motions. I hope my colleagues will consider my request.

Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Mr. El-Khoury, go ahead.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I don't feel comfortable when we have witnesses accepting to come here to aid this committee and to put value in order to continue our study. Bringing this motion with the presence of the witnesses here I don't think was the right thing to do.

My suggestion is to adjourn debate on the motion out of respect for our witnesses. Let's hear them.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

We have a motion to adjourn the debate.

(Motion negatived: nays 6; yeas 5)

The motion to adjourn the debate is defeated.

We have Ms. Kwan's motion on the floor.

Ms. Kwan, have you made any amendments to your motion?

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I did not make any amendments to my motion. I read the motion as it should be put.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

We have the motion moved by Ms. Kwan on the floor.

Is there any debate on the motion?

Mr. Ali, go ahead.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Madam Chair, can we read the motion again, please, just to clarify?

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Ms. Kwan, can you please read the motion?

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm happy to read the motion. It's also been sent to all MPs through their P9 account, so they should be able to get that accordingly.

The motion reads as follows:

That the committee study the government’s response to the final report of the Special Committee on Afghanistan entitled “Honouring Canada’s Legacy in Afghanistan: Responding to the Humanitarian Crisis and Helping People Reach Safety”, following the tabling of the report; that the committee invite the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship, Minister of National Defence, Minister of Foreign Affairs and the Minister of Justice and Attorney General, and their officials, with two hours allocated for each department, to provide an update on which of the 37 recommendations related to their portfolio they have acted on and/or its progress and which they will not implement with an explanation; and that the committee report its findings to the House.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

We have a motion on the floor.

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Can I get a clarification, please?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Go ahead, Ms. Diab.

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

I have two things.

One, I don't have it, but I appreciate your reading it. I do have a question. Is this the same motion to have no more than three meetings?