Evidence of meeting #35 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was date.
A recording is available from Parliament.
2:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
I call the meeting to order.
Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome to meeting number 35. We'll be studying—
Go ahead, Mr. Redekopp.
2:35 p.m.
Conservative
2:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
I am just opening the meeting. Let me open it and then we will come back.
Welcome to meeting number 35 of the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration.
Pursuant to Standing Order 106(4), the committee is meeting today to consider a request received by the clerk and submitted by five members of the committee to discuss undertaking a study of the coming into force date for the College of Immigration and Citizenship Consultants act. Members have all received the letter and have had a chance to look at the meeting request.
I will open the floor for debate. First of all, I will suggest that the motion be read for the record. Would any member like to read that motion?
2:35 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
I would like to do that, Madam.
Actually, the motion is going to be slightly different. The clerk has a copy. I would like her to send it around to everybody right now. As we're doing that, I'll thank everybody for being here today. My colleagues and Alexis requested this meeting, so I'm thankful everyone is here today.
I'll begin reading it. You should receive it shortly.
The motion is this:
That pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) the committee conduct a study into allegations of potential obstruction of justice at Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada; that this study consist of at least three meetings; that the committee invite Minister Mendicino for one meeting, departmental officials for one meeting, that the Minister appear separately from officials, that the officials invited include Patrick Therrien, Counsel, Legal Services (DOJ), IRCC and Brian Smith, Assistant Director, Immigration, Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada; that the third meeting be outside legal experts, and other witnesses as the committee sees fit; that these meetings be televised; that these meetings occur at the earliest opportunity possible and no later than November 4, 2022; that the Committee send for all information and documents, including: emails, briefing notes, memorandums, text messages, all electronic forms of communications, phone calls [including summary notes], hand written notes and any other correspondence, communication or documentation in the possession of...Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada or any subsidiary organizations relating to either the trademark case T-834-20 and related counter-suits before the federal court, or to the coming into force of section 292 of the Budget Implementation Act, 2019, No. 1, provided that:
(a) these documents shall be deposited with the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel, in an unredacted form, within 14 days of the adoption of this order;
(b) the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel redact all information that might reasonably be expected to compromise the personal contact information of individuals, and provide the redacted versions to the Committee;
(c) that the Access to Information packages JUS-A2020-00969, PCO-A-2020-00569, IRCC-2A 2020-93519 (part 1, part 2 and part 3) be sent to the Parliamentary Law Clerk without redaction for the Clerk to determine if redactions can be lifted and tabled with the committee,
(d) the committee hold an in-camera meeting with the Law Clerk, within seven days of the conclusion of his redaction of the documents, in order to determine which documents could be made public; and,
(e) should the department not provide documents in their unredacted form within ten days to the Law Clerk, that the Deputy Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Refugees Canada be scheduled to appear, and the Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Refugees Canada be invited to appear before the committee within 21 days of this motion passing to explain why the documents were not provided,
(f) should the Minister or Deputy Minister after this appearance still not turn over the documents in an unredacted form within ten days, or fail to appear within the 21 days, the Chair shall be instructed to report at their earliest opportunity to the House the following: “Your committee has requested documents from Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada and these documents have not been provided.”
That's the motion, Madame Chair.
2:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
Thank you, Mr. Redekopp.
I think your motion has just been sent by the clerk to all the members. I will suspend the meeting for three or four minutes so that everyone can have a look at that motion, and then we'll come back.
The meeting is suspended for a few minutes so that members can have an opportunity to look at that motion.
2:40 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
I was going to ask that Brad read it again, actually. He did such a good job the first time.
2:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
We will suspend the meeting for a few minutes to let everyone read that.
Madam Clerk, have you circulated the motion in both official languages?
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
I call the meeting back to order.
Mr. Redekopp has moved a motion. I hope everyone has been able to read it.
Would any members like Mr. Redekopp to repeat his motion, or is everyone okay?
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
I wouldn't mind, as you asked the question, if he repeated it.
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
Thank you, Mr. Zuberi.
Mr. Redekopp, would you please repeat your motion?
2:45 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
My motion is as follows:
That pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) the committee conduct a study into allegations of potential obstruction of justice at Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada; that this study consist of at least three meetings; that the committee invite Minister Mendicino for one meeting, departmental officials for one meeting, that the Minister appear separately from officials,—
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
On a point of order, are translators able to translate this into French?
2:45 p.m.
Conservative
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
2:45 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Point of order, Madam Chair.
I think there is a problem with the sound.
2:45 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
There is a lot of reverberation. It's difficult for our interpreters, who do a great job. We should make it easier for them.
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
Okay. It's good now.
Mr. Redekopp, please start again, and go a bit slower for the interpreters.
2:45 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
Okay.
The motion continues as follows:
that the officials invited include Patrick Therrien, Counsel, Legal Services (DOJ), IRCC and Brian Smith, Assistant Director, Immigration, Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada; that the third meeting be outside legal experts, and other witnesses as the committee sees fit; that these meetings be televised; that these meetings occur at the earliest opportunity possible and no later than November 4, 2022; that the Committee send for all information and documents, including: emails, briefing notes, memorandums, text messages, all electronic forms of communications, phone calls (summary notes), hand written notes and any other correspondence, communication or documentation in the possession of the Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada or any subsidiary organizations relating to either the trademark case T-834-20 and related counter-suits before the federal court, or to the coming into force of section 292 of the Budget Implementation Act, 2019, No. 1, provided that:
(a) these documents shall be deposited with the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel, in an unredacted form, within 14 days of the adoption of this order;
(b) the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel redact all information that might reasonably be expected to compromise the personal contact information of individuals, and provide the redacted versions to the Committee;
(c) that the Access to Information packages JUS-A2020-00969, PCO-A-2020-00569, IRCC-2A 2020-93519 (part 1, part 2 and part 3) be sent to the Parliamentary Law Clerk without redaction for the Clerk to determine if redactions can be lifted and tabled with the committee,
(d) the committee hold an in-camera meeting with the Law Clerk, within seven days of the conclusion of his redaction of the documents, in order to determine which documents could be made public; and,
(e) should the department not provide documents in their unredacted form within ten days to the Law Clerk, that the Deputy Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Refugees Canada be scheduled to appear, and the Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Refugees Canada be invited to appear before the committee within 21 days of this motion passing to explain why the documents were not provided,
(f) should the Minister or Deputy Minister after this appearance still not turn over the documents in an unredacted form within ten days, or fail to appear within the 21 days, the Chair shall be instructed to report at their earliest opportunity to the House the following: “Your committee has requested documents from Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada and these documents have not been provided.”
2:50 p.m.
Liberal
Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I did hear the French interpretation, but I would like Mr. Redekopp to provide a summary of the access to information files he spoke about.
Can you please give us some summary, Mr. Redekopp? Your motion is extremely long and packed. I think for all of our understanding, so that we're on the same page and know what we're discussing, can you please give us an adequate summary—not a minimal summary, but an adequate summary—so that we can have a proper understanding to judge what this motion is actually about?
2:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
Thank you, Mr. Zuberi.
We have two hands raised, after which we can go to Mr. Redekopp.
Go ahead, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.
2:50 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
I am concerned that this will delay our study of Roxham Road. In my view, this study is as topical as today's motion. In addition, the committee voted unanimously in favour of the Roxham Road motion. It is rare that our committee members unanimously agree on a particular issue.
I don't know how we can go about this in terms of procedure—as is well known, procedure is not my strong point— but I would like to find a way to alternate the two studies. Does anyone have an idea on how we could do this?
Should we remove “November 4” from the motion?
The motion states, “...that these meetings be televised; that these meetings occur at the earliest opportunity possible and no later than November 4...”.
I believe that if this date is kept in the motion, it will mean that we will have to postpone our study on Roxham Road. In my opinion, if we removed “and no later than November 4, 2022”, we could conduct the two studies alternately.
Next Tuesday we have a steering committee meeting to organize our schedule. At that time, we might find a satisfactory common ground.
What do my Conservative friends and those of the other parties think of this?