Evidence of meeting #37 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was applications.
A recording is available from Parliament.
1:55 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Madam Chair, I think there is a problem with the interpretation, and I hope my time will be reset.
What do you think about the idea of an immigration ombudsman?
1:55 p.m.
Mary Roman
I'm not hearing the translation very well. I'm sorry.
1:55 p.m.
Bloc
1:55 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Madam Chair, I would like my time reset to zero, as Ms. Roman did not hear my question.
1:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
I'll first make sure that the interpretation is working.
Madam Clerk, can you make sure that the interpretation is working before we go on?
1:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
It's good.
You can begin, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe. I'll start the clock over.
1:55 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Madam Chair, I want to make sure that Ms. Roman hears the interpretation.
Is this working, Ms. Roman?
1:55 p.m.
Mary Roman
Yes.
1:55 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Very well.
Ms. Roman, I would like to hear your opinion on what some people have proposed, which is the creation of an immigration ombudsman position.
1:55 p.m.
Mary Roman
It's a very new approach. I do not have experience with that.
1:55 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Okay. That's fine.
Ms. Long, what do you think about the idea of creating an immigration ombudsman position?
1:55 p.m.
Barrister and Solicitor, Long Mangalji LLP, As an Individual
I think it would be good, if they had any power. They would certainly have to have a large capacity to be an ombudsman.
Right now, I think most MPs are sort of acting in that role. People are going to MPs to ask them to speak on it. I certainly think as long as there's enough—
1:55 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Before you say you are in favour or not, you need to know what kind of office it is going to be.
Ms. Dench, I would like to know your opinion on this.
1:55 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Council for Refugees
I support Ms. Long's point of view.
That said, as this office will be inundated with complaints, it will need to be properly structured and staffed.
1:55 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
We should not end up with an office similar to the office of the Canadian Ombudsman for Responsible Enterprise. I don't think anyone wants that for immigration.
Ms. Long, you mentioned the Chinook tool.
In your opinion, should there be a moratorium on the use of Chinook, to see if it works well or if it creates more problems? Shouldn't this moratorium last until the light is shed on this program?
2 p.m.
Barrister and Solicitor, Long Mangalji LLP, As an Individual
Absolutely. Right now, the number of refusals coming out and the types of refusals just do not make sense.
You are playing with people's lives in deciding their immigration applications, and we can't do that.
2 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Do you feel that since Chinook has been used, preconceptions have been amplified and crystallized? Before, the agents may have had preconceptions, but now it seems like the AI system has outright crystallized and amplified those biases.
2 p.m.
Barrister and Solicitor, Long Mangalji LLP, As an Individual
Yes, when a refusal rate....
Sorry, I'm hearing a big echo.
2 p.m.
Barrister and Solicitor, Long Mangalji LLP, As an Individual
Okay.
When a refusal rate goes up.... I've seen statistics on refusal rates going from 30% or 40% up to 60%, which is untenable.
2 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
I'm sorry for interrupting, Ms. Long. The time is up for Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.
We will now proceed to Ms. Kwan for two and a half minutes. You can please begin.
October 21st, 2022 / 2 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
I'll let Ms. Long quickly finish her thought and then I want Ms. Dench to answer that last question that I put to her.
2 p.m.
Barrister and Solicitor, Long Mangalji LLP, As an Individual
When refusal rates go up like that, it's untenable. We certainly need to take a further look at the system before we implement it throughout immigration.