Evidence of meeting #42 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was safe.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Then you're telling us that, for four years, we've been living with an agreement that's unsatisfactory with respect to asylum claimants entering Canada.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
Look, just to be clear, having an agreement that is imperfect is far better than not having an agreement at all, but we should constantly be searching for ways to better the quality of the agreements that we have with our international partners.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
So we've been living with an imperfect agreement for four years without finding any solutions. That's fantastic.
Have you heard about traffickers who take advantage of migrants and asylum claimants? As we've seen in reports broadcast on Radio-Canada, including those filed by journalist Romain Schué, criminal traffickers are taking advantage of migrants by charging them anywhere from $600 to $10,000 per person.
Do you intend to call for an investigation to shed light on these trafficking rings?
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
I think we constantly need to monitor the treatment of people who are seeking to come to Canada, but I want to be clear that I would not attribute illegal behaviour in the United States to the presence of a safe third country agreement. In some ways it's possible that the absence of the agreement could exacerbate that kind of illicit behaviour.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Are you discussing trafficking rings with the Americans?
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
It's part of what we do within the context of the safe third country agreement: monitor the treatment of people who are coming to seek asylum. This is one of the things we can monitor, but it's certainly not the only thing.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
So the Canadian government has taken no steps to address these crimes. I would remind you that human trafficking is one of the most serious crimes in the world. The government says it wants to welcome these people—
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
That is not my characterization.
We're out of time. I'll look forward to question period next week.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
We will now proceed to Ms. Kwan.
Ms. Kwan, you have two and a half minutes. Please proceed.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
One way to address that issue, of course, is to get rid of the safe third country agreement, but anyway, the minister is not going to do that.
Given everything that we know about the safe third country agreement, will the minister consider broadening public policy exemptions under article 6 to include gender-based claims of vulnerable classes of people?
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
Are you talking about exemptions to the safe third country agreement?
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
As we seek to modernize it, there are a number of different items we would consider, but I don't want to get into the specifics of what conversations I have had confidentially with the United States. This is the kind of thing that we need to respect happens privately between sovereign nations.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thank you, but I hope that the minister will agree that, at the very minimum, he should advance gender-based claims and other vulnerable classes of people to be exempt. I won't belabour all the reasons, but this is important. I hope the minister will agree.
Currently, there's a prolonged delay for asylum claimants processing. I know that the minister wants to try to move this quickly, including the policy on allowing people to get an open work permit, but the reality on the ground is that people are not moving this through quickly, and we've been advised through a submission by a witness that the process has now added another 12 to 24 months before a claimant can even get their identification document, which is hugely problematic.
My question to the minister is, will he ensure that refugee protection claimant documents and open work permits are issued upon arrival so people can quickly move forward? This will also support municipalities and provinces as well, because otherwise, if people can't get these services and that document, they won't be able to work and they will have to go on, for example, income assistance and rely heavily on provincial governments and municipal governments for supports.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
On a point of clarity, I agree with the member that we need to continue to make investments to speed up the process. We put $1.3 billion towards the asylum system in the last federal budget. We recently made a change to expedite the timelines on which a person can receive a work permit by allowing them to make it prior to receiving an eligibility decision, and we also have the ability for individuals to access services upon the document acknowledging their claim, which happens much earlier in the process.
It is imperfect. We need to speed things up, but we are already taking steps to try to improve the quality of some of these circumstances you've raised.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
I'm sorry for interrupting, Ms. Kwan. Your time is up.
I've checked, and the minister can stay until 3:07, so we will have four minutes for Mr. Redekopp and then end the panel with Mr. Dhaliwal for four minutes.
Mr. Redekopp, you are up next. You will have four minutes for your round of questioning.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you, Minister, for being here.
You talked about how the migrants don't come to Canada because of our administrative procedures or because of the timing of the border and so on, and I understand that.
It's not necessarily that there are illegal activities going on, but we have entrepreneurs who are very cagey, and they understand that they can make a dollar here if they can help these migrants come to Canada. We've heard testimony, too, that there is a whole industry being built around bringing people to the border through the Roxham Road crossing.
My question to you is, what are you and your government doing to discourage some of these activities and to prevent this whole industry from taking hold and essentially taking advantage of the situation in a completely legal way?
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
Just to clarify, I think that every member of all parties on this committee would condemn human trafficking and people smuggling, and it's not something that we want to see by any means.
What we try to do is share good information about the process of making asylum claims in Canada and work with our international partners, in this case the United States, to let them know when we hear of trends that are happening within their borders that are not within the jurisdiction of the Government of Canada. Of course, we can't send the RCMP into the United States to start busting human trafficking rings that are taking place outside of our own borders, but we need to continue to work with our international partners and to provide good information.
On the issue of the safe third country agreement, this is not necessarily your perspective, but it's come up in other members' questions. Removing the safe third country agreement could result in an increase in the number of people who are seeking to come to Canada through irregular ways and making an asylum claim when they arrive, and that's something we want to protect against.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
I would agree with you on that, but I do want to circle back.
Ministers before you have actually made efforts to go to the United States. You speak about talking to the government, and I get that, but most entrepreneurs aren't looking at government websites to see what government-to-government discussions are. They're looking at what's out there in the social media and in different news.
Specifically, what efforts are you making to talk to more grassroots people about discouraging them from doing this and preventing them from making a dollar by supposedly helping people come to Roxham Road?
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
We have very limited time, so I will try to go fast.
We have different elements of our response to combat smuggling, whether it happens by road, air or sea—
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
Minister, I'm not talking about smuggling. These are not illegitimate businesses. These are entrepreneurs who see an opportunity. They're not smuggling people. They're helping people, but it's also exacerbating the problem and making it worse.
What are you doing to discourage that?
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
Are you talking about bringing people to the border for the purpose of making an asylum claim?