Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 22nd, 2023

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

We are definitely working on making sure that we participate in the investigation.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Did you take an internal investigation into the matter?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

All the steps linked to the investigation have been taken.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Have you attempted to find out who sent that letter to Mr. Young?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

As I said, I can't comment, because there's an investigation. You pretty much asked me that question three questions ago.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

I'll read part of Senator McPhedran's affidavit in Federal Court. It's point 30. It says that it was clear to her from their exchanges that Mr. Young, with the approval of Mr. Jungic—I believe he's referring to Mr. Oz Jungic, a former policy adviser in GAC in the minister's office who is now an adviser in the PMO—“had delegated authority to myself and Ms. Robinson”—who was a consultant working on this—“to insert names of persons already discussed and to add new names to the visa facilitation letter template” and that this flexible and pragmatic approach made sense.

Would a minister's office policy adviser have the authority to delegate such authority to a sitting senator?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

I won't get into the specific facts, but when it comes to facilitation letters, my ADM for consular services can answer to what we do and what we did in terms of facilitation.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

It's just a simple question. Would a minister's office policy adviser have the authority to delegate in the way that's described in the affidavit?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

As I mentioned, because you're referring to the affidavit, obviously I can't comment, because it's under investigation.

What I can tell you is that GAC indeed issued facilitation letters during the fall of Kabul to make sure that Afghans who had links to Canada—particularly Canadian Afghans—could get through checkpoints.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Did GAC delegate authority to anyone outside of GAC for the purpose of issuing these letters?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

As you know, I was not minister at the time, so I would not have that information.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Have you made any attempt to find out that information?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Because there is an investigation ongoing, of course we're participating with the investigation.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

I will direct this to Ms. Sunday, then.

Did anyone in GAC delegate authority?

[Julie Sunday, Assistant Deputy Minister, Consular, Security and Emergency Management, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

Our authorities of course fall under the consular mandate. When we were issuing letters of facilitation, which are a tool that we would sometimes use in a crisis scenario, these would be for Canadian citizens, permanent residents and their family members only.

In terms of the individuals to whom we provided these letters, it was to resolve the very difficult situation at Taliban checkpoints.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Did you delegate authority to any other persons outside of GAC to do that?

[Julie Sunday]

No.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you. That's all I wanted to hear.

With the time I have left, Minister, in your opening remarks you said you had “learned a lot” in this situation. Would you say that one of the learnings was to not call an unnecessary federal election at a time when a country was falling to a hostile terrorist group and we had thousands of Canadians for whom we didn't have a plan to evacuate? Would you characterize that as a learning?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

I think when the fall of Kabul happened, all of us across the country were working to find ways to help Afghans come to Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry. The time is up for Ms. Rempel Garner. We will now proceed to Mr. El-Khoury.

Mr. El-Khoury, you will have five minutes. Please begin.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for being here, Minister, and for all the work you are doing at the international level as the head of Canadian diplomacy. We are well aware that this makes a huge contribution to promoting Canada's image on the international stage.

As you know, Minister, it is very difficult for people to leave Afghanistan and that is one of the main issues in this regard. Pakistan, which borders on Afghanistan, plays a key role in the delivery of aid to undocumented persons. Canada has very good relations with allied countries that are also friends of Pakistan, such as Qatar, Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates.

Has multilateral work been done with those countries to improve the situation in order to help people who are leaving Afghanistan?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Thank you, my dear colleague.

Yes, we have worked with Pakistan, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Kuwait and the United States on several occasions to find ways of reaching our target and admitting 40,000 Afghan refugees. Yesterday, again, as I said a little earlier in my testimony, we succeeded in admitting over 360 Afghans arriving from Pakistan.

Working on immigration and safe passage issues is one thing, but working with colleagues at the diplomatic level to make sure the issue of Afghanistan continues to be a priority among all of the very numerous international issues is another. Those issues include the illegal and unjustified invasion of Ukraine, tensions in the Indo-Pacific region, and the serious humanitarian crises we are seeing in Africa, Venezuela and Haiti, among others.

Our objective is to denounce the Taliban at every opportunity and to work with other colleagues. The forum I prefer is the Women Foreign Ministers group, because we can examine issues that concern us at the international level from a feminist perspective there.

Because these women foreign ministers come from Europe, the Americas, Asia and Africa, it provides us with a good international network.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

Canada is very well respected by the United Nations and by the rest of the world. Can you tell us more to illustrate the role we have played in delivering international humanitarian aid to local people, as compared to other countries?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

We have been able to provide a lot of humanitarian aid. As I said a little earlier, it totals about $150 million.

However, the challenge facing Canada was somewhat unique, given the provisions of the Criminal Code that prevented us from funding any terrorist organization whatsoever, both directly and especially indirectly, and in this case the Taliban. That meant that any humanitarian organization that paid rent, taxes or anything else in an area under their jurisdiction, thereby indirectly supporting the government in place, violated the Criminal Code. That is why all our humanitarian aid was sent to the UN or the Red Cross.

Now, the objective of Bill C‑41 is to go further and help organizations that have a strong presence on the ground, like the one Ms. Kwan and Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe mentioned, Doctors Without Borders.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Minister, in the course of our study, a lot of people are asking us questions. They want to know why we are not able to do for the Afghans what we are doing for the Syrians. They are not aware that it is much easier in the case of the Syrian refugees, because they are registered with the United Nations and already have their documents. This all improves the situation and facilitates our process.

Can you address that subject, please?