Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 22nd, 2023

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

—on how many organizations received funding from GAC as far back as they can go and on how many people who worked for GAC received funding.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Ms. Kwan.

We will now proceed to MP Chong. You will have five minutes. You can please begin.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to continue with the questions I was asking earlier about our future response to evacuation crises.

I remember well the 2006 emergency evacuation of Canadians from Lebanon and how chaotic it was. I obviously remember well the events of two years ago. We live in the age of migration. We're seeing millions of people being displaced, with Latin America approaching the U.S. southern border, people here in Canada crossing at Roxham Road, migration throughout the Middle East into Europe and migration from northern Africa into Europe. This issue is not going away. We're likely going to be dealing with this in the near future.

I want to understand: If this happens again, what will be different this time?

Madam Sunday mentioned that additional resources have been put in place, consular resources. Can you tell us what will be different next time? What have we changed so that we can better respond to emergency evacuations?

[Julie Sunday]

Every emergency scenario is unique. Every one is different. To manage these, we do a lot of planning. We do a lot of contingency planning ahead of time.

We watch the world. I have a 24-7 emergency watch centre, where we have teams following events as they're happening around the world so that we can be aware of what's going on. We are available to Canadians 24-7. They can call us. We can provide them with instructions, etc.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

That's a good example of what I'm talking about.

During the evacuation of Afghanistan, we were told that IRCC was overwhelmed with the volumes of emails that were coming in during the evacuation. There were only a handful of people. In fact, we were told that there were two people in IRCC processing emails coming in, massive volumes of emails. They couldn't keep up.

A call went out from IRCC requesting that Government of Canada employees volunteer to work at IRCC to help clear the backlog. I hope that in the future, the PCO would order Government of Canada employees in other departments to address the need to open up emails in IRCC.

I'm wondering what has changed so that we don't get into a situation in the future, whether it be evacuation from Hong Kong of some 300,000 citizens or evacuation from other hot spots around the world. I'm wondering how we have learned from our past mistakes.

[Julie Sunday]

This is a great question.

We have that capacity at Global Affairs. During the Afghanistan crisis, we had over 200 individuals in our operations centre working the phone lines and answering emails. The number of emails we started to receive in the middle of that crisis was extreme. There were 70,000 a day. That was a very exceptional situation. We worked through the Russian invasion of Ukraine, where we also have consular interest and people, and we've never received that number of calls.

In terms of whether we're resourced for this, yes. Can I pull resources from a department—

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

When you say “we”, you're referring to the department.

[Julie Sunday]

Our department has the capacity to handle very large-scale international emergencies—

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

You're not speaking about the capacity of other departments.

[Julie Sunday]

I cannot speak to the capacity of other departments.

You've seen our department lead the COVID repatriation initiative—

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

I guess the challenge is.... I believe what you're telling us about the department, and you're the lead department, but I'm worried that other departments may not have the capacity in an emergency situation to assist in an evacuation, and if IRCC isn't issuing the appropriate paperwork, then it doesn't matter what resources Global Affairs has: Nothing's going to happen.

There must be a way for the lead department to affect certain outcomes in emergencies through central agencies like the PCO so that we don't end up with other agencies and departments being the bottleneck, even though Global Affairs is properly resourced.

[Julie Sunday]

Madam Chair, again I think this is a very good question.

It's about ensuring that we are resourced and that crises that have domestic components have good support from the whole system.

In this case, I would say that there was a significant interdepartmental effort. The scale of the demand for immigration was exceptional. We are focused on consular responsibilities, but we receive calls, of course, for a lot of distressed individuals in Afghanistan.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Ms. Sunday.

We will now end this panel with five minutes for Mr. Dhaliwal. Mr. Dhaliwal, the floor is yours. You can begin.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Madam Chair, I want to thank the officials from the department, not just for appearing but for doing great work behind the scenes. Thank you to all of you.

Anyone can respond, but I will certainly start with Mr. Gibbins.

There was a regime change in Pakistan. The Taliban have taken over Afghanistan. I would like to know about Canada's coordinated efforts with the international community.

[Christopher Gibbins]

Since the fall of Kabul in August 2021, Canada has been an integral part of the conversation within the international community in terms of how we respond, whether it's our diplomatic engagement, international assistance or humanitarian assistance. That's meant from the leadership level—the foreign minister and ministerial level—all the way through and down.

Part of that coordination, as Weldon referenced, is our special representative based in Doha. Doha became a hub for diplomatic engagement following the fall of Kabul. There are at least 18 other countries represented there. It's also a space and opportunity to engage directly with the Taliban, who are also there. Some of the messaging is coordinated amongst our allies in a very emphatic and consistent way.

In terms of our international coordination, the conversations continue. There were meetings recently in Dubai among the like-minded to look at how we can respond to the most recent egregious actions by the Taliban, whether it's the ban on women working in NGOs or the restrictions on education across the board. All of those are having a very serious impact on our capacity to deliver assistance.

That being said, as the minister pointed out, Canada has been able to contribute significantly and substantively, which is really quite remarkable under those conditions. We've been doing that alongside our partners. Conversations continue within the World Bank and so on and so forth.

Perhaps I'll stop there in case others wish to add.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Is there anyone else?

[Weldon Epp]

Stephen, did you want to add a word about the humanitarian aspect?

[Stephen Salewicz, Director General, International Humanitarian Assistance, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

Thank you for the question. I appreciate it.

To confirm what my colleagues have been saying, we have been part of a coordinated response, indeed. On the humanitarian side, which I'm responsible for, we work very closely with other donor countries to coordinate our response to the crisis.

Canada has been a significant donor in making meaningful contributions to that response. We were the fifth-largest donor to the humanitarian response appeal last year. We are a significant contributor.

Our focus has been on meeting the needs of the most vulnerable in Afghanistan. That's primarily through our support to food security through the WFP and UNICEF. We're helping to reach millions of children with our response.

This is a coordinated effort. Going back to the premise of your question, we work closely with the UN and other countries to effect this support.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Thank you.

Is there anyone else? No.

I'm going back to Ms. Loten.

You mentioned keeping your balance when it comes to Bill C-41. I have met with many humanitarian organizations. Is there anything else that you want to add in reference to that bill, so that it gives peace of mind to those organizations that are willing to work and help the most vulnerable in Afghanistan?

[Jennifer Loten]

The purpose of the amendment is to enable that engagement. I think we share their commitment to engaging with the people of Afghanistan and making sure that Canada can play an important role in protecting their rights and improving the circumstances in which they find themselves.

The purpose of the amendment is to provide protection from criminal liability. We remain convinced—and I'm sure many Afghans are convinced as well—that we should seize any opportunity to reduce the benefit that the Taliban may derive from this. That's the way we've crafted the legislation. It is to make sure that these organizations have the right sort of financial accountability in place and that they qualify to be supported in their work while at the same time making sure that we are reducing the benefit that the Taliban may derive, because we wouldn't want to be in a position of enabling that organization in any way.

That is the way it's crafted and that's its intention. Along with the broader stakeholder group, we share those goals.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Thank you.

Thank you very much, again, for being here. I wish you the very best.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Mr. Dhaliwal.

With that, this panel comes to an end.

On behalf of all members of this committee, I want to thank all the officials for appearing before the committee. Thank you for all that you do.

With that, do I have the will of the committee to adjourn the meeting?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Okay. The meeting is adjourned.