Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 10th, 2023

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Madam Chair, it's quite expansive, what Mr. Kmiec is bringing forward. I would like to have a suspension so we can have a discussion for a few minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Yes, that is fine.

Have you given this to the clerk?

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Yes. I have also given him the French version.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Okay.

We will get that to all the members. I will suspend the meeting for a few minutes so members can have a look at the motion. Then we will reconvene. Thank you.

The meeting is suspended.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I call the meeting to order.

Would the members who are virtual please turn on their cameras? Thank you.

We have a motion on the floor, which has been moved by Mr. Kmiec. I hope everyone has received a copy of that motion in both official languages.

We have that motion and we will have Ms. Lalonde speak.

Ms. Lalonde.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I want to say thank you to the witness who came to speak with us. I really appreciate his candour and his transparency.

I also am hearing a lot of hearsay, and for that reason I move to adjourn the debate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

A motion has been moved by Ms. Lalonde to adjourn the debate. It's a non-debatable motion, so we will have to go to a vote on that.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 7; nays 4)

The debate is adjourned.

We will now go back....

Ms. Kwan, you have your hand raised.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Yes.

I was just going to ask whether we're going back to the amendments and clause-by-clause for Bill S-245, and if yes, I would like to move on to the next—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

We will be going back to the witness. That's where we left, so we will complete that round.

I believe we were at Mr. Kmiec.

Mr. Kmiec, you have a minute.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

I have a minute left.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Yes.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Thank you kindly, Madam Chair.

So the cover-up begins, I guess. I find it appalling that we would not at least debate the potential breach of privilege of a member, because it impacts all of us. It impacts the whole committee.

We can at least report this to the Speaker. The Speaker can make a decision so that we can continue on with other things. Let the Speaker decide this. If he directs it to PROC, then PROC can decide and then investigate and call this Michèle Vallée and other people too.

I just find it appalling that this would be done. I have been, I think, infinitely reasonable. I have not tried to prolong things when I have been here. Everybody knows my position. I've been very clear. I hid nothing from nobody. When I found this and this was sent to me, I thought the entire committee needed to know. I can be very reasonable. I can also be very unreasonable, as I have been in other committees.

I find it appalling that we would not at least debate it and have a vote today so that this could be sent to the Speaker. The Speaker can make a decision. Based on everything that we saw here, he can then make a determination on whether there was a prima facie breach of privilege.

Again, I'm just appalled that we would do this and adjourn debate on my motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, but your time is up.

We will now proceed to Ms. Lalonde for five minutes.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I have some questions.

Mr. Emery, I want to reiterate my thanks for coming in front of our committee and speaking with us. I have a few minutes only, so I'm going to ask for brief answers, if I may.

Mr. Emery, you spoke to someone who received numbers, by which we mean NDP-1, NDP-4, G-5, etc., and I think you alluded to that. That document you're referring to is the amendments package. You believe that this document came to Michèle Vallée via the Bloc.

In your email to MP Kmiec, when you refer to subamendments, you only have strategy information, not specific wording and no numbers. Is that correct?

[J. Randall Emery]

That is correct.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

You've also indicated that you met with staff in the minister's office. Did those staff ever send you any documents? To your knowledge, did they ever send documents to Michèle Vallée?

[J. Randall Emery]

There are two questions there. Did they send any documents to me? No, and I have no knowledge of the other.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you very much.

When you met with the minister's office staff, was that a meeting you asked for, yes or no?

[J. Randall Emery]

Yes, it was.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

At that meeting, I assume you advocated for change to Bill S-245 and for other changes related to lost Canadians. Is that correct?

[J. Randall Emery]

That's correct.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Did anyone in the minister's office ever give you a concrete yes or no, or tell you that they definitely agreed with your proposal?

[J. Randall Emery]

No, they did not.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Did they ever concretely tell you that they either agreed or disagreed with any proposal from the NDP or any other party?

[J. Randall Emery]

No, they did not.