Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 29th, 2023

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm going to simplify this. I'm trying to get clear in my mind the question that I had.

Today, forget about this Bill S-245. Today, the parents adopt a child. The parents who adopted a child, for some reason, unfortunately die. That relationship does not exist now, and that child would not be able to come.

As I said, there are many spousal cases. They get married and because the spouse dies, that relationship goes away. How would it address those cases?

[Nicole Girard]

We just need to clarify the question. is the member referring to the current state of affairs or under the bill?

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

I am referring to the current state of affairs. Today, if that were the case, how would that affect the adopted child? If both parents are citizens and both die, or there's one who was a citizen and dies, what happens to the child who is adopted in the present circumstances?

[Nicole Girard]

I'll ask my colleague, Ms. Dewan, to answer.

[Jody Dewan, Senior Policy Analyst, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

If I understand the question correctly, you're asking, if under the current legislation, if a Canadian parent or two Canadian parents seek to adopt a child internationally, and then become deceased prior to the finalization of that adoption...? Under the current legislation, the adoption cannot be finalized since deceased persons cannot adopt children.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Would it rectify that situation under this bill?

[Jody Dewan]

It is my understanding that this bill would not be able to rectify the situation of someone who is deceased and therefore cannot adopt a child. A child cannot be adopted by a deceased person.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Let me say the adoption goes through and the eligibility for adoption passes. There are many other formalities that happen. We have seen many cases, such as the spousal case. The eligibility of the spousal case goes through, but the spouse does not get a visa. The sponsoring spouse from Canada then dies, so the sponsored person, even though the eligibility has passed, would not be able to come. In that particular instance, if the adoption was clear, but the child was not in Canada, would that rectify that situation?

[Jody Dewan]

As I understand it, in order for an international adoption to be finalized, there has to be a genuine established parent-child relationship. If children then receive citizenship, it is because they have a Canadian parent who is either in the first generation and meets the substantial connection requirement, or the parent is already a Canadian citizen who is able to pass on citizenship. If the parent then dies following the adoption, that does not sever the adoption. The adoption would stand. The child's citizenship would stand.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Ms. Dewan, and thank you, Mr. Dhaliwal.

Next, we have Mr. Maguire.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I wish to thank my colleague, Mr. Dhaliwal, for the questions he was asking. It follows up a bit with my colleague, Mr. Redekopp, as well, with regard to the timing.

I follow exactly what you're saying, Ms. Dewan. You are going to have to have one or both parents at least alive or that adoption isn't going to take place, even though it might have been in the process. I'm going back to what I was asking in the earlier question regarding the other clause we had today.

Is there any impact on the period of time we're talking about? What years does this take place in, or is it any time previous to where we're at today?

[Nicole Girard]

This would be similar to the natural-born children who are benefiting from the connection test, where the Canadian parent needs a connection test. This is similarly benefiting international adoptees since 2009, from the time the first-generation limit was put in place in 2009.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Mr. Maguire.

Mr. Kmiec.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Thank you.

Mr. Redekopp wanted to ask something before I went, because it was a follow-up.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thanks to Mr. Dhaliwal for asking that question, because that was part of my original confusion on this.

I was under the impression that.... This is on the question of an adoption and the parents die. In this proposed subsection 4(2), we're talking about an unborn child whose parents die. That child obviously comes into the world and has to have citizenship. That's the case, from what I understand.

However, what you're saying is that, in the same sense, if an adoption is in process but the parents die, the adoption does not continue on. It's different from the case of a birth. Am I understanding that correctly?

[Nicole Girard]

I'll ask my colleague to speak to that, Madam Chair.

[Jody Dewan]

Yes, I believe that your understanding is correct. Although I believe every attempt is being made to equalize the treatment of the natural-born children of Canadian citizens abroad and the internationally adopted children by Canadian citizens abroad, the mechanisms are slightly different. The circumstances are slightly different. As a result, there are going to be some differences in how the legislation needs to apply to different circumstances. Thank you.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Is this creating an unintended consequence, or is it just a difference that needs to be dealt with? Is this the correct way to deal with this?

[Nicole Girard]

I would repeat that there are not any unintended consequences from the perspectives of the experts at this table.

This is an amendment that is an equity measure that is necessary to extend citizenship to international adoptees of a Canadian parent in the second generation and beyond, just like the natural-born children who have been discussed before.

There's nothing further to add, Madam Chair. Thank you.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

I understand, but is that not creating an inequity? If you're pregnant and you're bringing a child into this world, that child will become a citizen should you die. If you're doing the exact same process but through adoption, you're trying to bring a child into this world, so to speak, and you die, then that child is never going to be a Canadian and they're going to end up back where they started.

Is that not an inequity?

[Nicole Girard]

The proposed amendment is seeking to minimize differences between the natural-born children and adopted children of a Canadian parent as much as is legally possible. It's not creating new distinctions.

However, there will be a big distinction and a big inequity should this amendment not go forward to equalize things, as much as is possible legally, between the natural-born and adopted children of a Canadian parent. Thank you.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

First of all, there is a bit of an inequity here. Would you agree that if it's a natural-born child versus a child going through adoption, the outcome is different?

However small or big you want to classify it, that is an inequity. Is that a fair statement?

[Nicole Girard]

I'm not stating that there is an inequity, for the record. What I'm saying is that this amendment is necessary in order to create equity, as much as is possible, between the adopted child of a Canadian and a natural-born child of a Canadian, so that in both circumstances there can be access to the connection test.

So far in this bill, we've only dealt with the natural-born children of Canadians. Thank you.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Is there a legal way to complete that equity where an adopted child whose parents die in the process could still become a Canadian citizen? Is there a legal way to do that?

[Nicole Girard]

We believe that the proposed amendment is doing that, insofar as it's possible, while still respecting a number of obligations that Canada has when international adoptions come into play to ensure that the proper diligence and safeguards are in place. Those include the element that the adoption has to be in the best interests of the child. Second, as my colleague mentioned, the adoption has to create a genuine parent-child relationship, and, third, the adoption has to be in accordance with the laws of in place in the adopting country and the country of residence. Thank you.