Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 19th, 2023

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

That's one way of doing it. I'm going to suggest a different one.

Wouldn't it be wiser, perhaps, for the federal government to simply tell DLIs that a DLI that's recognized by a province cannot use a consultant overseas; it must use a consultant here in Canada who's registered with the college. It can't use them for any type of recruitment, because we don't know whether they're doing their work in the public interest.

That kind of sounded like what both Lovepreet and Balbir were saying, which was that they shouldn't be allowed to do work on behalf of colleges. Colleges should not be allowed to hire them, because we don't know what the business practice is—whether they're getting a percentage or whether they're owned through the back door. That's my first question.

The second question would be this: Should there also be a ban whereby if you are a consultant, you're forbidden from owning a private college?

[Sarom Rho]

There are so many examples. Every time a private college or a recruiter shuts down a firm, five new ones may pop up. We're calling for a system in which there is regulation for recruiters and these private colleges that work in partnership with public colleges.

One thing to add here is that there is a global recruitment chain, but we must focus on the Canadian anchor. The Canadian anchor is these colleges and universities that are jumping to their feet right now to self-regulate, but self-regulation means that these mechanisms are not enforceable.

We need the federal government to create a regulatory regime.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

I have to interrupt you, because I want to ask both Balbir and Lovepreet this.

In your cases, or in cases in general, how are international students paying their consultants right now?

[Lovepreet Singh]

It's different in every case, but I've paid from my account.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Is it like a direct deposit? Is it a third-party—

[Lovepreet Singh]

It's a bank transfer.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

It's a straight bank transfer. Is this transfer done before you get to Canada, or is it done once you are in Canada?

[Lovepreet Singh]

It was before. I was back home.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

It was before you came to Canada.

I'll just make a suggestion here. What would your experience be like if Canada introduced a rule, through IRCC or CBSA, that said no consultant can be paid until you are here in Canada and have confirmed that you can attend your college? Would that be, perhaps, a better way of doing it? There's a condition set for the payment of consultants. Would that have helped some of the international students?

[Lovepreet Singh]

If this could happen, it would be great.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

I have no further questions, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you.

We will now proceed to Ms. Sahota for five minutes.

Ms. Sahota.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My first question is for Lovepreet and Balbir.

I commend you for appearing at the committee today. I think it takes a lot of courage, and you both spoke very well on behalf of other international students. You also played a leadership role in advocating to members of Parliament, to the media and in the protests. I think that's great.

In a previous exchange with Ms. Kwan, we were talking about how this group of students should be provided a pathway to permanent residency. I think there's some confusion in my understanding. To help me better understand, do you think that you should be put on the same footing as other international students, who did not encounter fake documents being a part of their file? Should you be treated the same as them, or should you be treated better than them?

[Balbir Singh]

I think we should be treated the same as them, but the thing is that some of these students—as in the example from Lovepreet—are suffering so much for such a long time. We are paying our consultants. We are financially totally broken right now. Our mental stability.... Some of the students are in depression.

I think we need to have some better treatment for that. If it is a PR pathway, or something like that, that's going to be much better, but we will agree with the minister on whatever pathway they suggest to us.

We want this thing to be resolved quickly, because it could cause some more problems to the students in the future. We expect it to be done quickly, whatever is done.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Yes, and I think things are moving in terms of government standards. Generally, things have been moving quickly in regard to your issue, because over the last couple of months they were able to override and create a special category in the system—a task force—that will give a second chance to students.

I also want to be clear that your documents and the evidence that you present will be looked at by that task force, and if you're found to be a genuine student, you will be provided the opportunity to finish your studies, finish your work and then be placed on the same footing as any other international student, so you can resume and eventually apply for PR. An opportunity to a pathway is there for those who are genuine students.

Now, I wanted to ask a bit more about your ideas in terms of unscrupulous agents who are working in connection with colleges here in Ontario and in other provinces as well. You mentioned that you believe some of them to have ownership or some interest in colleges. Are there any colleges that you can give us examples of, or can you help explain what this process looks like? How do they recruit? What do they say to the students? In your particular cases, why did you believe your documents to be accurate?

[Lovepreet Singh]

The first question is how they work. The connection between the unscrupulous agents back home and the colleges here is very well explained in the CBC documentary on The Fifth Estate. Even in that documentary, they mentioned a few names, too.

That's my answer.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Can you explain for this committee, so it's on the record as well, what the process looks like?

[Lovepreet Singh]

My recommendation...? I'm sorry. I don't understand.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

No. What is the process of recruiting a student? What exactly happened in your case? How were you recruited? Do you feel the agent who recruited you had some connection with the school or an ownership interest? How are we at this stage at this point?

[Balbir Singh]

I think they have some connection, because of all the students who were followed by those agents, most were related to just two to three colleges. That agent provided the offer letters just based on Ontario. Some students are from Fanshawe College, and others were from Humber College, so it looks like something is fishy here. Why did those consultants provide fake offer letters for just two to three colleges? There are many hundreds of colleges here in Canada. Maybe they could have provided fake offer letters for those colleges. They provided fake offer letters for just two to three colleges, so this is the thing, maybe.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

That's interesting. You also stated earlier that the particular cohort of students you're dealing with were eligible, or they met the criteria, to get into school themselves.

Can you explain that, and elaborate a bit on it? What were your qualifications? What did your grade point average look like, and why do you believe all these students would have gotten enrolment?

[Lovepreet Singh]

I did mechanical engineering back home, and I got seven bands in IELTS, so that is enough to gain admission to pretty much any college here in Canada. I graduated here in supply chain management, and if I had the chance, I could get a very good job in any field here in Canada. I could make my life better, and I could make this country better.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you. Time is up for Ms. Sahota.

We will now proceed to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for two and a half minutes, and then we will end this panel with Ms. Kwan for two and a half minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Singh, as this is the last time I will address you today, I would like to thank you for being here. Your testimony is essential and we will take it into account when drafting our report.

Mr. Singh, you mentioned the working group. How much confidence do you currently have in this working group?

[Lovepreet Singh]

To be very honest, this is a very good question.

Yes, we trust the task force, and we trust the government. We hope that whatever recommendations we give here in this committee will be considered.