Evidence of meeting #72 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was education.
A recording is available from Parliament.
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
Thank you, Ms. Kwan.
I have a speaking list.
We'll go to Mr. Redekopp and then Mr. Dhaliwal.
6:05 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Point of order, Madam Chair.
I asked to speak before you decided to suspend the meeting. My name should have been on the list quite awhile ago.
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
6:05 p.m.
Bloc
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
We suspended. I'm sorry for that.
I gave the floor, so we will come back to you, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
Fayçal El-Khoury Liberal Laval—Les Îles, QC
Can I have a copy of the press release to analyze it and understand what was released exactly?
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
6:05 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I have a couple thoughts on this motion.
I agree with what Ms. Kwan is saying. In this specific motion, she highlighted that when we talked about this at committee, we agreed with part of it. We wanted to make some changes. Quite frankly, we weren't super happy with the final version of this motion, but it was better that than nothing, so we did agree to it. It was unanimous, as she pointed out. The point is that it wasn't exactly what we wanted, but it was close enough, so we went with it.
I agree with her that I don't think the way the press release came out at all reflected what was passed by the committee. I may have agreed or disagreed with what the press release looked like, but that's not the point. The point is that the committee made a decision. Whether I agreed with it fully or not is also not the point. The committee made a decision and that's how it should have come out. That's the reason I agree with this.
Another point related to that is that I find a bit of a similarity here. As you all know, I moved a motion four times to study this issue of international students and four times it was voted down by the NDP and the Liberals. Ultimately, it was eventually adopted in a different motion by Ms. Kwan, which was massaged and changed into something that was better suited to, I think, what the Liberals wanted.
My point is that it's the same type of thing: We wanted to do something, and then it was massaged over time and changed into something else. That's a little like what we're seeing here with this press release. That concerns me. If we make a decision, I think we need to do it. That's why I'm supporting what Ms. Kwan is talking about here.
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
Thank you, Mr. Redekopp.
We will go to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.
Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, I'm sorry for that confusion. At that time, the meeting was suspended.
6:10 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
There’s no problem, Madam Chair. You know you’re my favourite chair, even if I vote against your decisions.
There are barely five minutes left for our meeting and we won’t be able to go past 6:15 p.m. because of House resources.
I therefore propose to my honourable colleagues that we proceed to the vote immediately if we want to move on to something else at the next meeting. Otherwise, we’ll have to come back to this.
The Liberals are signalling that they don’t agree with me; I have a feeling I won’t be successful, which is unfortunate, because we should be doing our job. We already know how everyone is going to vote. I know exactly how my Conservative friends are going to vote and I know exactly how Ms. Kwan is going to vote. Of course, I also know how I’m going to vote.
I think we should end the meeting by doing our job, by voting on the motion, by not trying to filibuster and by making the people we represent in the federal government proud. Those are the words of a Quebec sovereignist.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
June 19th, 2023 / 6:10 p.m.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Surrey—Newton, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Madam Chair, I always respect my dear friend Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe. On the other hand, I have to be accountable to my constituents and have to make sure that I put things on the record as well.
Earlier, Mr. Redekopp mentioned that we Liberals did not support his motion. That has never been the intent. The intent was to make sure that we finished the citizenship bill first and then continued with this study. This study was equally important, but at the same time, we as committee members had a legislative agenda in front of us that we needed to finish. In fact, we know exactly who filibustered that one. I don't need to mention it, because I don't want to get into an argument on this.
I can tell you that as soon as that bill was reported to the House, we as a committee started important work on the issue that the students are facing. Those victim students already have a lot of toll on their minds, and they want to clear up many questions. I had a meeting with them in June and they raised many questions. In fact, I was ready to ask those questions today of the officials from the CBSA so those students could have first-hand answers from the CBSA. Unfortunately, with the way things are going now, I don't think I will be able to get to those questions on what students faced. I can tell you that the intent from every member was to help those students, whether members were Conservative, Liberal, NDP, you name it. However, that is another issue.
The issue right now is the students who were victims of this fraudulent scheme, which is very important. We need to know what the process from the CBSA is going to be. I know the CBSA had already said to us that if the students have gone to university, have completed their education, are working in a workplace and have not been involved in any criminal activities.... Those types of students were genuine students. I wanted to make sure that I was able to ask questions today of the CBSA so the victim students have that information.
I feel very sorry that we all have to go through this, not only me. In fact, I am very frustrated today seeing all this petty politics just for one press release. We are taking time away from the officials, who have come all the way here to give the answers that students want to hear.
6:10 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Point of order, Madam Chair.
We were debating the motion on the table, but I think my colleague is getting a little off track.
Unfortunately, it is now 6:14.
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
That's not a point of order. Mr. Dhaliwal has the floor.
Go ahead, Mr. Dhaliwal.
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Surrey—Newton, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I had to clear that up because I'm really mad and frustrated that we are all here. In fact, on the mind of every member on this committee was helping those students. Are we helping those students now by bringing in one motion after the other?
6:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
I'm sorry for interrupting, Mr. Dhaliwal.
We don't have resources available for this committee after 6:15 p.m. It's already 6:15 p.m., so I will have to suspend the meeting, and we'll come back on Wednesday.
The meeting is suspended.
[The meeting was suspended at 6:15 p.m., Monday, June 19]
[The meeting resumed at 4:50 p.m., Wednesday, June 21]
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
We are resuming meeting number 72 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration.
When the meeting was suspended on June 19, the committee was debating a motion moved by Ms. Kwan to report a question of privilege to the House. Mr. Dhaliwal had the floor.
Go ahead, Mr. Dhaliwal.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Surrey—Newton, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Madam Chair, first of all today, I would love to wish everyone a happy National Indigenous Peoples Day.
You were talking about my tie, Madam Chair. This was embroidered by former chief Karen Telford.
I want to thank Madam Kwan for bringing forward her motion.
The point Madam Kwan has made is an important one and should be addressed. However, it's also important, Madam Chair, that we hear from the panels of witnesses on this matter concerning international students. Therefore, I move that the debate be now adjourned.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
MP Dhaliwal has moved a motion for the debate to be adjourned. I will ask the clerk to take the vote.
(Motion agreed to: yeas 5; nays 0)
We will go back to our study of the exploitation scheme targeting certain international students. We have the witnesses for the first panel. I will suspend the meeting for two minutes so witnesses can take their seats.
I call the meeting back to order.
For this panel, we are joined by three witnesses: Mr. Balbir Singh, Mr. Lovepreet Singh and Madam Sarom Rho.
The witnesses will have five minutes for their opening remarks.
Two witnesses, Mr. Balbir Singh and Mr. Lovepreet Singh, are sharing a presentation.
You will have five minutes. Please begin.
4:50 p.m.
Balbir Singh As an Individual
Good morning, honourable members of Parliament. Thank you so much for giving us this opportunity.
My name is Balbir Singh. I'm one of the student victims. I have been suffering due to this situation for the last two years. My friend Lovepreet is in the same situation, and he will explain further our issue and our recommendations.
Thank you.
4:55 p.m.
Lovepreet Singh As an Individual
Good evening, Madam Chair and honourable members of the parliamentary committee.
I rise before you today with profound gratitude to express my sincere appreciation to each and every one of you for giving us this opportunity to address the critical issue of exploitation faced by international students. I want to thank all the MPs, ministers, members of this committee and the honourable immigration minister for halting the further deportations until the final investigation is completed.
I am here to represent those students who participated in the protest. We are affected students who have fallen victim to unscrupulous agents who have provided us fake offer letters and ruined our lives. We are victims of fraud. We are already victims back home, and we are revictimized again here in Canada.
I want to make one recommendation to the task force on how to determine whether a student is genuine or not—by checking their capability and intention. If the student is already capable of obtaining the original offer letter, then why do we need a fake one? Moreover, their intentions are clear. That's why they went to the school. They completed their studies.
In addition, once the student has got clearance from the task force, then we have a gentle request to the minister to use his powers to revoke the inadmissibility and five-year ban under section 25.2 of IRPA.
Studies have shown that 50% of the affected international students have suicidal thoughts. There are four or five dead bodies going back home to India every month due to mental stress. Students are visiting counsellors for their mental stability. Our families back home are on the verge of filing for bankruptcy, because we pay five times more fees than a domestic student. Now we have paid around $15,000 to $20,000 to lawyers as legal fees.
Now immigration consultants are threatening our families, too, because we are openly exposing them in the media and spreading awareness about these ghost consultants. The mother of one of the students who was protesting with us was sick. She was waiting for him, and he lost his mother. Now he has to live with this regret for his whole life. His only crime was that he was defrauded by a ghost immigration consultant. That's why revoking the inadmissibility is so important, so that we can travel back home in emergency situations.
We are broken mentally and financially, and we are losing confidence in ourselves because all of us are suffering this unbearable pain from the last two to three years. We are expecting that real justice should be delivered to us.
Apart from that, Canadian colleges are now in a race to recruit many international students. That's why they are dealing with these ghost consultants who act as sales representatives to these colleges. These ghost consultants, who are dealing with several colleges in Canada, sell fake dreams to students. Colleges in Canada intentionally create a barrier between the students and the colleges, so that students have no choice. They have to go to immigration consultants.
According to a CBC documentary on The Fifth Estate, colleges in Canada issued 10 times more acceptance letters than their physical occupancy limit, and when these students came to Canada, these colleges deferred these students to the next semester. A recent example of a similar incident was when a student protested in front of Alpha College in Toronto. Here I want to make one recommendation: that colleges in Canada be required to deal only with authorized agents who are regulated by the Canadian immigration authorities.
We care about the integrity of the Canadian system, and we believe the culprits should face consequences. We believe that no system is perfect in this world. However, the exploitation of international students has happened because the ghost consultants got to know about some deficiencies in our system.
Now we have to work as a team—the government, the immigration department and the international students—to rectify our system. As a representative of affected international students, I want to mention that we are already working on an awareness campaign. We are going to spread awareness among students who want to come to Canada on study permits from all over the world, because we don't want any other student to have to suffer the same pain that we went through.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
Thank you, Mr. Singh.
We will now proceed to our next witness, Ms. Sarom Rho, representing Migrant Workers Alliance for Change.
You will have five minutes for your opening remarks. You can please begin.
4:55 p.m.
Sarom Rho Organizer, Migrant Workers Alliance for Change
Honourable members of Parliament, thank you for inviting me to speak to you today on behalf of the Migrant Workers Alliance for Change.
We are a membership-based organization of tens of thousands of migrant farm workers, care workers, study permit holders, postgraduate work permit holders, refugees and undocumented people. I coordinate Migrant Students United, the sector of our work that organizes and supports current and former international students and that has membership in every province and territory in the country.
As of December 2022, there were 807,260 study permit holders and 286,245 postgraduate work permit holders in the country. Of the 1.7 million migrant and undocumented people in Canada, current and former international students are the largest group of non-permanent residents. Like other migrants, they live and work in Canada, mostly for low wages, then are forced to leave or become undocumented. They are, in other words, migrant workers.
Immigration rules that deny permanent residence status to the majority of people arriving in Canada are fundamentally responsible for the exploitation and exclusion of migrant students. We reiterate our call for permanent resident status for all migrants, including working-class migrants arriving today on study permits. I can speak more to that in the question and answer section, but today I want to focus my remarks on recruitment specifically.
We have been organizing with the students tricked by education recruiters, including Lovepreet and Balbir, and we echo their recommendations to waive inadmissibility for all impacted students who are already deemed inadmissible or have admissibility hearings under way. I urge you to give immediate directions to the task force via Minister Sean Fraser to implement a fair process that seeks to support students by allowing all those who are impacted to self-identify and receive temporary resident permits, and also by reversing the onus and ensuring there is a right of appeal for those who are considered complicit.
Based on the Migrant Workers Alliance for Change's decades of experience creating regulations regarding recruiters of temporary foreign workers, we propose the creation of an international student recruiter regulatory regime in consultation with migrant-led organizations.
Such a regulatory regime must be based on the following initial principles.
First, the regulatory mechanism must be designed with the aim of protecting and supporting migrant students, instead of keeping out students whose agents are engaging in illegal and unscrupulous practices.
Second, all recruiters of international students must be registered with the federal government, and their names must be publicly available.
Third, colleges and universities must work only with registered recruiters. Those caught not doing so must face strict penalties.
Fourth, there must be joint and several liability between the educational institutions and recruiters. That is, if a student is exploited by a recruiter, even in India or another sending country, the college or university in Canada must be held financially responsible.
Fifth, a complaint system must be created that includes whistle-blower protection, including permanent resident status for international students who come forward with complaints about unfair recruitment practices. Many of the students who have been caught up by Brijesh Mishra, Atul Mahajan, Gurbaaz, Gill and other recruiters in this particular scheme would come forward if they knew they would not be penalized.
For the recruiter regulatory regime to work, Canada must also take two steps.
First, colleges and university education accreditation processes must be taken up by the federal government. Many fly-by-night private colleges make up the bulk of the institutions where students are facing recruiter abuse. The federal government is aware of the substandard nature of these institutions, because the graduates are not issued a postgraduate work permit. Such schools, many of which are basically predatory financial institutions, must be weeded out.
Second, you must reject proposals for self-regulation by colleges and universities. Guidelines and principles created by post-secondary institutions are non-enforceable and do not provide a mechanism of enforcement to migrants.
Many migrant students have become undocumented and are among the half a million people in the country without immigration status. I want to take this opportunity to remind you that 18 months ago, in December 2021, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau promised to create a regularization program for undocumented people and permanent resident status for migrant students and workers.
In two days, or possibly tonight, when Parliament rises, the third consecutive legislative session since that promise was made will end. We do not need further studies or investigations. I urge you to call on the Prime Minister to tell him to do the right thing and immediately create an uncapped regularization program that grants permanent residence status to all undocumented people, without exclusion.
Thank you. I look forward to your questions.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
Thank you.
We will now proceed to our rounds of questioning. We will begin with Mr. Redekopp for six minutes.
Mr. Redekopp, go ahead.