Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 19th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Ms. Lehal.

With that, the opening remarks come to an end.

We will now proceed to our first round of questioning.

We will begin with Mr. Kmiec for six minutes.

Mr. Kmiec, please begin.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

My questions are for Ms. Anna Boyden, the assistant deputy minister.

You mentioned a letter sent from the provincial minister to the federal minister. When was the letter sent? Can you provide the committee with a copy of the letter?

[Anna Boyden]

It is my understanding that the letter was sent in December 2022. I would have to follow up on the letter itself.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

That's okay. If you could provide it, I think it would be very informative.

You mentioned that the letter discussed two primary issues. One was concerns about the processing times of international student applications, and the second one was about potential fraud happening in the system and scammers who are scamming international students.

[Anna Boyden]

It's my understanding that the letter sent last December from Ontario's minister was to point out the need for the federal government to protect prospective international students and reduce the backlog on visa wait times. It's out understanding that the backlog on visa wait times has led talented students to choose other countries over coming to Canada to pursue their education, and it can leave some of those wanting to come to Canada or Ontario particularly vulnerable to these bad actors.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

I'm struggling to understand how that would impact them.

Are you implying that, because they weren't able to have their applications processed quicky enough by IRCC, they would be more likely, then, to seek out a consultant overseas who would guarantee them a spot in Canada and then provide them with a fake acceptance letter to a college in Ontario?

[Anna Boyden]

That could be one potential outcome.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Okay.

Can I then ask you about DLIs?

How does the Province of Ontario make sure that colleges live up to the standards you set? We've heard from different international students now that there are serious issues around the quality of some of these colleges and their business practices in attracting students and convincing them to come to Ontario specifically, but all across Canada. This is a specific situation in Ontario I want to know about.

What type of standards do you have? Do you have any rules set down about when you can use an education consultant? What are the rules around using a consultant either overseas or in Canada? Do you have any rules around whether colleges can hire consultants to act on their behalf to recruit international students?

[Anna Boyden]

I think it's important to go back and recognize what a DLI is or how the relationship of the designated learning institutions comes about and how it's a joint provincial and federal program. It's part of the international student program.

There is a memorandum of understanding that's in place between the Ministry of Colleges and Universities and the IRCC to jointly administer the ISP. Our Ontario post-secondary education institutions can only recruit and host international students on a federal study permit if they are a DLI-designated institution under that program.

To be approved as a DLI in Ontario, an institution must comply with the applicable federal, provincial and territorial legislation, and they do have to meet specific requirements that are part of the ISP policy.

I'm happy to share, as part of our MOU with the federal government, that there are specific criteria about the eligibility related—

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

I'm sorry; can just provide it to the committee? You don't have to read from it, but if you can just table it so the committee has access to it, that would be great.

Has IRCC ever reached out to you with concerns about fraud being committed against international students?

[Anna Boyden]

To me personally, no. We do have a role and inspectors who exist within our ministry to support and investigate if there were concerns raised by a student. We do have inspectors who are responsible for conducting on-site inspections of private designated learning institutes. They visit campus locations. They visit private degree-granting institutions, so we do have a role where we do follow up and visit institutions where there could be an area of concern.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Has IRCC communicated with you directly?

[Anna Boyden]

Not with me directly, no.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

But another part of the ministry....

Is it possible, perhaps, for you to provide that information to the committee if, in the future, we decide we want to follow up with them?

Has CBSA ever contacted you about scammers acting against international students with fake acceptance letters?

[Anna Boyden]

No, CBSA has not been in touch with me or my office.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Have they been in touch with anybody in your department, then, or is there another way CBSA would contact persons in your ministry to inform you that they have concerns about how international students are being treated and that a cohort of them have been given fake acceptance letters?

[Anna Boyden]

I would have to take that back to see whether there has been any contact within other areas of the ministry.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Just on colleges one more time, we've heard there is a difference of behaviour, it seems, between private colleges and public colleges in terms of their business practices.

Do you know if there is a policy in the Ontario government on whether a consultant of any kind, registered or not, is allowed to own a private college and also provide services for that same college, in order to attract international students?

[Anna Boyden]

No.

We support and work with private career colleges under the Private Career Colleges Act. Under that act, I do not believe there to be any specific legislation around the employment status or role of an individual who owns a private career college.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Would it be fair to say that, in the province of Ontario, you don't have mechanisms to verify whether either a consultant—registered or not—or an education consultant in Canada or overseas is also the owner of a private college and is funnelling students into a college here in Canada, and doing two sides of the same business?

[Anna Boyden]

To become a registered private career college in Ontario, there is an extensive process the college goes through. We understand information about their ownership structure and financial background. It is quite a process to become a registered private career college in Ontario. I believe that, through this process, potential fraudulent actors could be weeded out.

Again, for anyone acting outside the country, we would be limited in terms of our jurisdiction.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

That is your time now.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

We will now proceed with Mr. Dhaliwal.

Mr. Dhaliwal, you will have six minutes.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to thank the panel members for appearing here.

My first question will go to Ms. Lehal.

First of all, I want to thank you for your service in the neighbourhood I have belonged to for many years. Your reputation is one of being helpful and professional in your field of expertise.

My question to you, Madame Lehal, is this: What approach do you believe the task force or government should take in distinguishing between students who genuinely came as students and were misled, and those who knowingly engaged in fraudulent activities and never went to school?