Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Oct. 24th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Go ahead, Minister Miller.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Thank you, Chair.

Again, we can provide you those numbers in due course.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Just in case, I want to make sure, so I will read out the NOC codes I would like, and your department could then provide them to this committee. I would like all members to be able to have them. These are the numbers that should have been provided to this committee right now. NOC code 73102 is plasterers, drywall installers and finishers and lathers. Plumbers are NOC code 72012. Carpenters and cabinet workers are NOC code 72013. NOC code 72014 is for concrete finishers, roofers, painters and bricklayers.

I'll just remind you, Minister, that the CMHC says that we need 3.5 million homes built by 2030.

Then the NOC codes continue. I'd like you to provide this committee down to the granular level and also for groupings: NOC code groupings 70, 71, 72 and 73. This is the basic information that I would expect we could receive.

More generally, Minister, how many construction workers have you brought in this year in 2023, and how many last year in 2022 in all programs, whether it's express entry, the Canada experience class or any one of them?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Minister, you have the floor.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Again, MP Kmiec, you seem to already have these answers yourself, but, again, our teams will get back to you and give you full ventilation of those numbers that are in our possession.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Mr. Kmiec, you have the floor.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Is housing a priority, then, if you haven't come prepared to answer those questions? At the granular level how many construction workers are we bringing in?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Absolutely, but surely you didn't bring me in here to ask me about individual NOC codes. It sounds like you're more in the business of making a political statement, which I invite you to make. Again, if you want the facts, we're glad to give them to you.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

It's not a political statement. I asked you how many you brought in.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Mr. Kmiec, the Minister has the floor.

Minister Miller, continue please.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

We don't deny.... Look, this is not the only program where we bring in skilled workers. I have conceded readily that in the past we have not been able to match supply and demand properly outside the temporary foreign workers class, which has it's own problems. Clearly we have to do better, and matching NOC codes to the jobs that are out there is absolutely something we need to do. The unions are asking for us to do it, but that isn't homegrown demand.

At time when winds are turning and people are asking us to reduce numbers, I think it's important for purposes of a more general discussion as opposed to citing granular numbers with respect to NOC codes, which we could provide you at a later date, that we all agree that we will not get the things done we need to do in this country without bringing skilled immigrants into this country. It's something we're going to do. We started doing this under the global express entry streams, as well as the provincial nominee streams. Those are all numbers that you're absolutely welcome to, and we'll provide them to you. We will get this done. I know that Minister Fraser is very eager to deploy some of these.

Again, we can't just announce houses without having people to built them, and the federal government is there to help.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, Minister. The time is up.

Now we will move to Madam Zahid.

Madam Zahid, go ahead, please.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thanks, Minister, for appearing before the committee.

Minister, my first question is in regard to caregivers. I have many caregivers in my riding. The majority of them are women from the Filipino community. They are compassionate and dedicated and have come to our country to do vitally important work to take care of our loved ones, our parents, our grandparents and our children. They have made many sacrifices, often spending much time away from their own families. Unfortunately, due to changing caregiver programs and rules and through no fault of their own, they have fallen out of status.

Minister, these are hard-working people who have done so much for our community and are making important contributions to Canada. They deserve to keep doing so. Will you commit to a program of amnesty and regularization of these caregivers so that these caregivers can stop living in fear and continue contributing making Canada the best country to live in?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Mr. Miller, you have the floor.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Thank you, MP Zahid.

I think it's important to note for purposes of this discussion that in 2022 we welcomed over 4,300 caregivers and their families through dedicated pathways to permanent residence, and about four months later we reduced the amount of work experience required to qualify for permanent residence from 24 months to 12 months.

I don't deny that there are some people who have fallen out of status, and I think that is work that we are trying to do generally in order to regularize a stream of people in this country who do not have regular status. That comes with a number of policy choices that are tricky. We are also fighting the perception that, in some cases, these people are perceived as cue jumpers, which I think is not the case—but in all of this we must have a humane and humanitarian approach to how we regularize people who have fallen out of status, whether it's allowing them to go back into status or have a pathway to permanent residency. Again, work that the Prime Minister has written in the prior minister's mandate letter needs to be done, and I firmly believe that it should be completed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Madam Zahid.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

I am really proud that Canada has welcomed close to 40,000 Afghan refugees since the fall of Kabul, since August 2021, in different streams. Many of them have settled in my own riding, in my own community, and I have met many of them. They are committed to contributing to their new homeland here in Canada, but they also worry about their families and loved ones and all who are still trying to survive in Afghanistan under the brutal Taliban regime. They worry that as Canada reaches our initial target of 40,000, and as the world focuses on Ukraine, they will be forgotten.

Minister, will you assure us that the 40,000 refugee number is a floor and not a ceiling, and that we will continue to welcome Afghans needing protection here in Canada?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Minister Miller.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Thank you.

I would draw your attention to the latest number we have, which is publicly available, that shows that we are very close to our 40,000 persons target. That's important. I don't think we can necessarily fall too beholden to a target when there are humans behind, waiting to be evacuated, whether or not they are currently in Afghanistan, where, you will appreciate, our ability to operate is very, very limited, given the current regime, and even less so our ability to speak to it publicly. It does not mean we won't deploy the efforts to make sure that the people we have committed to are safe, whether they are in Afghanistan, or, for the purposes of this discussion, currently in Pakistan, with some very difficult deadlines looming over their heads.

I can confirm to this committee that the taps will not be shut off at 40,000. Again, we need some sense, for all government purposes, as to what that planning is, but again, it's not a question of simply turning off the taps at 40,000.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

I will share the rest of my time with MP Morrice.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you.

Mr. Morrice, go ahead. The floor is yours.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you, MP Zahid.

Minister, I'd like to follow up on conversations we've had as well as a letter I wrote to your predecessor earlier this year. IRCC did a really important thing in putting in place a series of temporary immigration measures to support immediate family members of Canadian citizens and permanent residents in the midst of the crisis in Sudan. The issue we've been pursuing since is how “immediate” family member is defined in the underlying regulations. As of now, it excludes parents, siblings and grandparents. It means that Sudanese members of my community continue to live in fear over the safety of their brother or sister. I think we can both agree that they are immediate family.

Can you share more, Minister, about what is being done to address this?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Minister, you have one minute to address this.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I'll sort of break this down into two parts. I'll try to answer rapidly about some of the work.

We've not announced anything on Sudan yet. I have taken to heart the criticism of the policy, which, in the context of more extended families and even more nuclear families, probably should be expanded.

In the Sudan context, I cannot announce anything publicly at this time. I'm very open to your suggestions and your forceful recommendations.

On the Afghanistan portion, I will ask DM Fox to respond quickly so that we don't take up more of your time.