Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 28th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Welcome to meeting number 85 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration.

For the first hour, we are continuing our study of closed work permits and temporary foreign workers.

I am pleased to welcome two witnesses who are with us today: from the Canadian Agricultural Human Resource Council, Ms. Peggy Brekveld, chair, and from the Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association, Mr. Kenton Possberg, director.

Welcome to the committee.

Ms. Brekveld, you have five minutes for your opening statement.

[Peggy Brekveld, Chair, Canadian Agricultural Human Resource Council]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair and members of the committee, thank you for the invitation to participate in this committee’s study.

I am Peggy Brekveld, chair of the Canadian Agricultural Human Resource Council. My comments today will focus on the value of temporary foreign workers to the Canadian agriculture industry.

The Canadian Agricultural Human Resource Council, or CAHRC, has been examining the workforce needs of the Canadian agriculture sector for more than 15 years. CAHRC, along with the Canadian Federation of Agriculture and Food and Beverage Canada, is leading the national workforce strategic plan for agriculture and food and beverage manufacturing. Together, we have engaged industry stakeholders on ways to address workforce shortages.

CAHRC’s most recent labour market research, released on November 1, illustrates the critical role the agriculture sector plays in the Canadian economy in fulfilling both domestic and global food, fuel and fibre demands. In 2022, the Canadian agriculture sector generated $38.8 billion in GDP, or 1.9% of the national total. Canada has established itself as a major producer of diverse and high-quality agricultural products. It ranks among the world's largest exporters, with $92.8 billion in agricultural and processed food exports in 2022.

Secure access to an affordable, safe and reliable food supply both for Canadians and for the world relies on a skilled and motivated workforce. The success of agriculture and its sector does as well. The data is impressive. In 2022, the agricultural sector, including crops and animal production, support services and agricultural wholesale, employed over 351,000 Canadian workers and 71,000 temporary foreign workers, including the seasonal ag worker program workers. Even with these additional workers from other parts of the world, the industry still experienced 28,200 job vacancies in the same year.

Over the next decade, expanding global markets for Canadian food products are expected to drive substantial growth in this sector. The challenges to meet this growth will need strategic responses. There are several ways that the industry is planning to address this. Part of that response will need to address a labour shortage that is already present and likely to grow. The national workforce strategic plan is examining this issue.

The care and well-being of agriculture workers, both domestic and foreign, are the top priority of agriculture employers. Agriculture employers work very closely with Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, Employment and Social Development Canada and Service Canada to ensure the oversights and regulations are in place to protect workers and employers, the processes continue to improve and bad actors are rooted out.

The industry’s goal is for workers, both domestic and foreign, to choose agriculture as a place to work. Having a stable, predictable and fully functioning workforce will benefit employers, employees and our food system. We know that Canada and Canadians deserve a stable food system, but as well, so do the countries around the world that depend on us for food.

I look forward to questions from the committee. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, Ms. Brekveld.

Now we'll go to Mr. Possberg for five minutes, please.

[Kenton Possberg]

Thank you for the opportunity to speak regarding the temporary foreign worker program.

My name is Kenton Possberg. My wife and I own and operate a grain and oilseed farm in Humboldt, Saskatchewan. I'm also a director with the Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association. Besides that, I have been sitting on several working groups and committees relating to the temporary foreign worker program for the last 10 years.

Our farm currently has six full-time staff. During the growing season, we hire an additional 10 people. On a grain farm, the peak periods of employment are during the growing season, which is April through October.

Of our seasonal staff, we have been successful in finding some residents to fill these roles, but we are always left with several positions unfilled. To fill this void, we have been using the temporary foreign worker program to hire seasonal workers since the 2007 crop season.

Our farm uses the agriculture stream. Under the current temporary foreign worker program, the LMIA needs to be submitted six months or more in advance to get all of the approvals in place. Not only do we need to get the LMIA approved, but we also need to get the application for the work permit approved. The processing time for LMIAs has improved substantially in recent years, but the work permit processing time continues to be unpredictable. Depending on the country of the resident, it takes up to six months to be approved. It also takes time and money to attract and recruit these individuals.

One of the bigger issues with the current structure of the foreign worker program is that under the current NOC code classification, machinery operators continue to be classified as low skill. This shows that the department does not understand the skill required to operate modern farm equipment.

Where grains and oilseeds have a high-skill requirement, and high wage, our program rules get lumped into the same lower-skill, lower-wage positions. Housing is a good example. We really need a sector-specific and, more importantly, a regionally specific program.

With regard to implementing open work permits, I have some concerns. There's already a process in place that allows any foreign worker in Canada to change employers. The only requirement is that the new prospective employer must have a valid LMIA. There's a dedicated processing centre to deal with these situations, and they get priority processing.

If TFWs are given an open work permit upon arrival, it circumvents the whole process of employers recruiting Canadian workers for a specific job in their operation. Moreover, it could put employers, particularly those in the agriculture sector, at risk of losing employees when they are needed the most.

I also have a concern that workers could lose the protections that are built into the system, such as rules surrounding hiring the worker, their wages, working conditions and housing.

This will lead to some significant unintended consequences. As an employer, rather than taking the time, effort and cost of recruiting the individual and paying for the flights, I would be better off waiting for my neighbour to do this and then trying to poach that individual.

Open work permits would likely lead to a significant numbers of TFWs leaving their rural employment to move to higher-populated urban centres. In the grains and oilseeds industry, we have issues with finding people due to our rural location. It doesn't help the Canadian economy or Canadian citizens if TFWs leave the regions where they are needed to go to higher-populated areas, which don't need more people competing for jobs in industries and are not having issues finding workers.

Even if the program allowed sectoral work permits, the consequence could be individuals leaving places like Humboldt to move to an operation near a larger community like Calgary, Saskatoon or Edmonton.

We continue to request that the temporary foreign worker program follow through and create a stand-alone agriculture and agri-food program. We need to be removed from the generic program due to our long-standing labour shortages, rural location and seasonal requirements that will never amount to full-time positions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you to both of you.

Now we can proceed with the questions and answers.

Mr. Redekopp, go ahead for six minutes, please.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses today. It's great that they can be here.

One of the discussions we've had at this committee has been around the living conditions of temporary foreign workers. Advocates for open permits have indicated that sometimes operators, such as you folks, are keeping workers in horrible conditions. Some have said that, and different things.

Mr. Possberg, could you describe to me the housing provided for temporary workers on a farm such as yours?

[Kenton Possberg]

For our farm in particular, we have a family-style bungalow located in Humboldt that is provided to the workers. We have to get an annual inspection done, and that inspection needs to be done prior to the LMIA being submitted. All the checks and balances are in place to ensure living conditions are suitable.

The problem is, because we are lumped in with the rest of agriculture, a lot of the rules and regulations tend to go toward the lowest common denominator. In this specific case, it would be more due to bunkhouse-style conditions. For grains and oilseeds, that's not at all the kind of housing we use.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Mr. Possberg, if you could change one thing in the whole world, in terms of housing, what would you change?

[Kenton Possberg]

It would be the $30-a-week maximum we're allowed to charge the worker.

The people we bring over tend to be from more affluent areas. They're from western Europe. A lot of them have university degrees. They come from backgrounds where they demand certain styles of living conditions. If they don't have those living conditions, they're not going to come. Due to the wage structure we have, it would be more than reasonable for us to qualify under some of the other rules for the high-wage stream in the general program itself, which allows up to 30% of a worker's gross salary.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

In your experience, what protections are in place for TFWs when they come to work in Canada? For instance, if someone were to poach a worker through an open work permit, as you were talking about, who would pay for the housing, the ticket home and that sort of thing?

Is it something the employer takes care of? How does that work?

[Kenton Possberg]

If it were a completely open work permit, I guess those protections would be lost. Currently, you can get audited. There are audits that happen routinely, and you're not notified of them. They can just show up at any given time, and you need to be able to provide all the documents and everything else to ensure workers' protections are being met. Now, if you went to an open work permit, all of that would potentially be lost.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

For a TFW on your farm, for example, what protections do they have if they have a problem and want to leave your farm? What can they do?

[Kenton Possberg]

There's a hotline they can phone and there's an immediate response. There are provisions in place if they want to switch farms. They just need to go to another farm that has an LMIA in place. They have complete freedom to move around. Granted, that's protecting the Canadian workforce. Currently, the prospective employer would need to have an open LMIA. They would need to have demonstrated that they weren't able to find Canadians.

If they have an open work permit and can go anywhere, they're going to be competing with Canadian citizens for jobs, possibly in sectors they're not required in. Then, there are no fallbacks anymore.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

The UN special rapporteur compared closed work permits to modern-day slavery.

Mr. Possberg, are you and your colleagues practising modern-day slavery?

[Kenton Possberg]

No.

I heard that. As a Canadian farmer, that offends me. There was a lot of sensationalism coming into play with some of it, and it disturbs me that it received the level of press it did. I'm not sure whether they set foot in Canada, but I know they didn't even set foot on a farm in Canada.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Ms. Brekveld, in your organization's experience working with farmers, do they take care of their workers, or are they simply out to exploit them, as some people have suggested?

[Peggy Brekveld]

The system has to work for both the employer and the employee. If it doesn't, the program wouldn't exist the way it does or do justice to either group.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Are there safeguards in place for workers on closed permits?

[Peggy Brekveld]

Yes, there are inspections, as Mr. Possberg spoke about. There is continued discussion about what the program should look like, what the qualifications are and what the standards are. Those are developed in coordination with industry and government.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

I'll switch to processing.

We heard last week about a critical labour shortage in slaughter facilities for pork and beef. TFWs have been helpful there. In the processing industry, how crucial, in your opinion, is the TFW program to meeting the labour shortages?

[Peggy Brekveld]

As I mentioned, in 2022 we had a shortage over the entire sector—which includes processing—of over 100,000 people. There were 71,000 filling in with TFWs. They are valued and are needed to continue to grow this sector in the way that we are headed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, Mr. Redekopp.

We will go to Parliamentary Secretary Chiang for six minutes, please.

[Paul Chiang, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here with us today.

My question is for Ms. Brekveld. Thank you so much.

Your council, with the Canadian Federation of Agriculture and Food and Beverage Canada, is currently developing a national workforce strategy for agriculture and food manufacturing. The objective of this strategy is to achieve workforce stability by 2030.

In the interim report published in December 2022, your council also states that to achieve workforce stability, temporary foreign workers and their contribution must be “publicly recognized as a valued pillar of Canada's agricultural...workforce”. What do you think are the major barriers to their widespread acceptance?

[Peggy Brekveld]

Part of the answer is understanding, acknowledging and vocally publicly stating that they are skilled workers.

They're not low-skilled workers. They are skilled workers who are required. You need knowledge to understand how to prune a tree properly so that the apples continue to produce.

Part of it has to do with leaning into how they are part of the solution and how we can best ensure the situation is good for employees and for employers.

[Paul Chiang, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

In your opinion, Ms. Brekveld, how can the government adapt the seasonal agricultural worker program to help the industry?

Would additional pathways to permanent residency help fill the labour shortage in your industry?