Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Dec. 5th, 2023

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

I'm asking whether you have those. You had about a half hour or more to look them up. Are they available?

[Nathalie Manseau]

We don't have that level of detail, but we can provide them to you.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Thank you.

I went through a bunch of your figures here. With regard to your 2022-23 numbers, it seems that you lapsed some money that was appropriated.

Is it standard practice to appropriate money through this estimates process and then lapse those funds at the end of the year or let them stay on your books? How long do they stay on your books?

[Christiane Fox]

What I would say is that for every kind of funding decision, obviously we have a responsibility through the mains, the supplementaries and good fiscal responsibility to account for the money we spend.

In some instances where losses have occurred, for instance, it could be things like the Afghan resettlement program. The pace of arrivals was not exactly as predicted in light of situations on the ground: exit permits from Pakistan to get people in.... That matters to us financially. When people arrive as government-assisted refugees, the interim housing benefits kick in, and those numbers can be fairly large in the context of our appropriations.

That's how I would explain some of the lapses that have taken place as a result of the—

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Would that amount to about $1.4 billion between the end of last year and this...?

[Christiane Fox]

I'm sorry, what was the figure that you used?

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

It was $1.4 billion.

[Christiane Fox]

No, that would not have been for that.

I'll let Nathalie speak to that.

[Nathalie Manseau]

The total lapse was $933 million.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

It was almost a billion. Thank you very much.

In regard to the bulk of the increased spending that you're asking for now, you're asking for $184 million in operating expenditures and $475 million more in grants and contributions.

Explain the grants and contributions to me, please.

[Christiane Fox]

The grants and contributions for us, as a department, I think are primarily to the settlement and resettlement network. The totality of that spend over the last year was about $1.3 billion. In terms of the supplementary estimates, in light of the extension of the CUAET program, some of the benefits associated with it—financial assistance, interim housing, language and employment supports—would be part of some of the grants and contributions that we allocate within the department.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Thank you.

Now, we have a difference here between the numbers. Educate me, please. We're talking about an extra $57 million coming up. The resettlement assistance program is increasing by $57 million to $329 million, plus contributions.

There are grants and contributions. Can you explain the difference between the grants and the contributions for resettlement assistance?

[Nathalie Manseau]

A contribution requires a contribution agreement with the recipients and may have some conditions. The grants are non-conditional payments to recipients.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

IRB, the Immigration and Refugee Board, has not requested any more money this year.

Is it because of the closure of Roxham Road that it no longer requires as much to get people through the process? Has that been a net savings, and will it be a net savings in the final analysis of these estimates?

[Christiane Fox]

I won't necessarily speak to all of the details of the IRB, but I would say that the Roxham Road closure has not led to a decrease in the numbers of asylum seekers.

I think that the IRB, as well as other partners in the system, including us, got additional money in past budgets and we're looking at how we can use those funds to match the numbers we have.

I think it would be fair to say that the volumes have not decreased, as a result of the STCA negotiations of the additional protocol.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

The minister and you both spoke about the housing assistance program, $212 million. This is extraordinary, obviously, with an excessive number of immigrants coming in at one point in time without infrastructure to house or provide them with services.

Is this something you're going to see lapsing going forward, or is this going to continue as part of your budget lines going forward?

[Christiane Fox]

It is something we're paying very close attention to. I think the interim housing assistance program has been essential in protecting the most vulnerable people from staying on the streets and in providing interim housing. As we look at the asylum context around the world, and as we look at its domestic ramifications, we are assessing exactly what the impacts would be and what the best ways to manage those would be, aside from hotels, necessarily.

We talked about the reception centre. With the Peel investment, we are looking at how we can bring service providers into one space. People can apply for their work permits, get some social supports they need and have interim housing.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Thank you.

Let me refer to the Yeates report because it melds with something else here. The Yeates report indicates that you're going to have to go through a reorganization at some point in the future. You, more or less, have a broken organizational structure, through no fault of your own. It says that your employees have done a good job of holding that all together in the meantime, but you're going to need some funds for reorganization, obviously.

You're also going to need some funds for the digital changes you have to go through and for the plan that is requiring it, yet there are no funds, going forward, indicated in your go-forward plan.

I look at your budget, your estimates, and look at your go-forward plan in your departmental plan, and there's nothing there that seems to speak to the reality of what you're going to face in the very near future, yet it does indicate that you think you're going to reduce your spending.

Could you please comment?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

It's already at the six minute and 15 second mark, so please be brief.

[Christiane Fox]

I would say, first, we have done the reorganization. We did it in a cost-neutral way. We listened to the advice of the Yeates report and made decisions as a department. We are reorganized, and that was effective October 16.

The second point I would make is on the issue of the modernization activities. We have been allocated over $840 million for the digital modernization platform. That is taking us to what the public procurement has been around a client-facing front-end and the back-end supports we need.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, Mr. McLean.

We will now go to the parliamentary secretary.

Mr. Chiang, go ahead for six minutes.

[Paul Chiang, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here with us today.

I would like to start with the immigration levels plan. It is integral to our immigration plan. It sets a target for welcoming new permanent residents and helps provinces, territories and local organizations plan for years to come.

When developing those levels, consultation is key to ensuring that our immigration levels plan is aligned with the current realities of the labour market, while also ensuring that newcomers have the resources and the tools they need to thrive and to contribute meaningfully to the new communities.

Can you give this committee an overview of the consultation process that went into developing the levels plan?

[Christiane Fox]

Absolutely.

Every year, as we think about our levels plan, the department engages in very formal consultations with provinces and territories, as well as a number of stakeholders. Those could be business representatives, educational institutions, faith-based organizations, multicultural or ethno-cultural associations and municipalities. The engagement is quite extensive.

I think, as an organization, where we tried to put emphasis and tried to make some changes over the last year was around engaging indigenous leadership across the country and having them be more integral in the development of our levels plan. We benefited from our strategic immigration review, where we went across the country—I, Louise and members of the team—to talk to people about what they needed to see in terms of changes and how Canada can continue to welcome immigration successfully. The consultations are quite an extensive process. That leads to our ability to prepare our advice to government on the immigration levels plan.

[Paul Chiang, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you for that answer.

IRCC is requesting to transfer $1.5 million to Global Affairs Canada to support the Afghan resettlement task force.

Could you provide this committee with an update on the progress of the task force and its plans for the immediate and long-term future?

[Christiane Fox]

I think the Afghanistan sector within our department, working in lockstep with security agencies and Global Affairs, has had a lot of successes and things to be proud of.

In Canada, 40,000 Afghan refugees have resettled. Almost on a weekly basis right now, we are seeing charter flights leave Pakistan for arrival in Canada. We have a good pace of departures right now. We're working very well with Pakistani officials in being able to access our clients on the ground. This is not always easy. The biggest challenge remains to be our clients who remain in Afghanistan and our ability to support them. Big efforts are being spent on that.

Yesterday, we had a chance to speak with some of our employees. They spoke about their experiences through the Afghan resettlement effort. Highlighting some efforts of some IRCC staff, one in particular was able to reunite a three year old with her father after the mass evacuation in August. Another individual personally interviewed over 3,500 people in desperate situations. This work continues, and our commitment continues. It's not only at IRCC but also at other government departments, including Global Affairs.