Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Dec. 5th, 2023

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I would say this: I get that there are other factors that have to be navigated through in order to actually get the people to safety. First and foremost, for them to get through the first barrier, is the Canadian government willing to accept them and, therefore, create a policy that allows for it in a fair and systematic fashion, not in a one-off situation? Without that policy change, they can't even get through the first door.

I would ask the minister to act with utmost urgency because people are literally dying. The executive director of UNICEF now calls the Gaza strip “the most dangerous place in the world to be a child”. That is the reality that people are faced with. I think there's no time to waste. I don't think it's a difficult policy to change in that regard.

I would also ask the minister to provide a special immigration measure for people with family members in Gaza so that they can bring them to safety. Again, without a pathway, people have nowhere to go. They have no ability to begin the process to help bring them to safety.

Will the minister be working on that as well?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Recognizing that I am not the sole decider in this.... It's stuff that we are working on with our colleagues at Foreign Affairs and with our partners in the region. It is something, as you've said, that is of the utmost importance.

Again, the policy, perhaps, will not contain everything you're advocating for. It's something that we are working on. It has to be realistic, and it has to actually reflect our ability to extract people, which, I would reiterate for this group, is still extremely limited, even within the categories of people we are trying to get out. I know that you suggested that this is piecemeal, but in cases where we have had facts, circumstances and the ability to get people out in a secure and safe way, we've done so and, I would say, with modest success.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

What I'm trying to avert for the government, actually, is to not get into the situation where in the case of Afghanistan there was this hit-and-miss approach. Some people got out and other didn't, to the point where authorization letters that were not official from the department were being handed out. We don't want that kind of controversy. We should learn lessons from what's happened before. It's really important that we do this right.

I would urge the minister to take immediate action to bring in special immigration measures—one, to expand the extended family into the immediate family definition; and two, to allow for people in Canada to bring their loved ones to safety. That includes extended family members. I'll just park that there. I don't want to spend more of my precious time on that during my six minutes, because I want to raise another issue.

With regard to Afghanistan, I've handed a pile of files to the government. I get that you don't want to get into individual cases, but there are cases where de facto dependants are part of that application. Everyone else has been approved within the application except for a single sister, for example, an unmarried sister who will be left behind. There are de facto dependants under the definition of IRCC. That can't be allowed to happen. The minister must understand the grave danger that this woman would be exposed to if she were left behind. Now the family's stuck in this situation trying to make a decision. Do they leave? Do they not leave? This is not a choice.

Why are de facto dependants being excluded in applications? What is wrong with the system?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

As I mentioned to your colleague from the Conservative Party, it is difficult to comment on individual cases. I'm not going to say that this is a mistake. These challenges do happen, particularly in the operational contexts we face. Thank you for meeting with my team. I think we have some positive news on a couple of the files. We can follow up with that after.

Again, every case of a person left behind is devastating. We do our utmost to try to get them out. I think we can't dismiss how difficult it is to operate in the region, and I know you're not suggesting that.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I gave the minister some files and I followed up some additional ones. I haven't really had an update on what's happened with those situations. Many of those files actually include what we call de facto dependants who have been left behind.

Just quickly, when will the government lift the ban on allowing families who want to sponsor parents or grandparents to come to Canada to submit applications?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you. The time is up.

Minister, do you want to respond?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Okay.

The characterization of it as a ban is inaccurate. We have a limited intake of people. As you know, we do a lottery. It isn't a perfect way to proceed—the previous way not being even as good as that one—but it is about a set number of people.

I know that you object to the cap on this. I know that it creates a lot of personal challenges for families looking to reunite. But that is one that has been decided as part of our levels plan. It is an imperfect mechanism that was put in place to make an even less perfect one better.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Well, based on the lottery, people could buy a ticket—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, honourable member. The time is up.

Mr. McLean, go ahead for five minutes.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister and officials, welcome.

I'll go right into your supplementary estimates here. You're asking us to give our input on $671 million of additional appropriations you want for this year. In your past yearly estimates, your biggest increase in funding seems to come from professional and special services. There was $600 million spent in this area three years ago, and $1.4 billion last year.

How much are you spending in professional and special services this year?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I'll pass that one to the deputy minister.

[Christiane Fox, Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

In the supplementary estimates (B), what I can say is that we have one element that's the modernization of our platforms. It's a modest one in the supplementary estimates (B). It's about $18 million. Some of that would be for cloud technology, etc.

We always look at the balance of outside external advice versus internal spend. In the area of IT, I think you have noted that in some years it has been high. I would agree with that, especially as we were launching the digital modernization platform looking at cloud technologies.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Thank you. I have limited time here.

What is the expected number for this year?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

We can get it to you.

[Nathalie Manseau, Chief Financial Officer, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

We have it.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

I'll go on to my next question—

[Nathalie Manseau]

I have it.

The expected number for this fiscal year is $1.9 billion, but 70% of that is for passport delivery; amounts that we transferred to ESDC; hotels—

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

I'm sorry. Can we stop?

You said $9.9 billion.

[Nathalie Manseau]

I said $1.9 billion.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

It's gone from $1.4 billion to $1.9 billion. That's another half-a-billion-dollar increase.

[Nathalie Manseau]

Yes, but 70% of that is for...it includes hotels and the interim federal health program, which have increased since last year.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

That includes the hotels where nobody was really staying half the time, and they were excessively paid for, Minister.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I don't know what you're referring to, but if you look at the hotel occupancy rate across the IRCC network...the deputy minister is telling me it's 95% to 98%.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Can you provide us with the top five payees of those professional and special services, please?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I'm sure we can provide you with a list.