Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Oct. 30th, 2025

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Shouldn't asylum claimants have to prove that they made their claim in a timely manner, instead of making the government do so?

Why didn't you include that provision in Bill C-12?

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

There are clear provisions in this act—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

But not that provision.

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

—in terms of the ineligibility rules, the one-year deadline and the 14 days.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Those are likely to be punted to the courts, and some simple switches, which could have prevented people from abusing the asylum system, you chose not to include, which is interesting.

Minister, have you done any sorts of studies on the totality of costs of bogus asylum claimants with regard to benefits across jurisdictions over the last six years?

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

Give a quick response, please.

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

I just recently met on the federal-provincial-territorial, and that was part of the discussion. We talked about it. We talked about the federal support—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

What was it? What was the total cost?

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

I'm sorry. That's time. You're going to have to continue this in the next round, Ms. Rempel Garner.

We next go, for six minutes, to Ms. Amandeep Sodhi.

[Amandeep Sodhi, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister and our witnesses, for being here today.

Minister, I want to give you a little bit of time to complete your answer from Ms. Garner's questioning time.

Are you able to tell us how Bill C-12 will protect against fraud within the asylum system?

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you for that.

I think it's an important question that actually deserves a minute or two on it.

IRCC actively targets organized and coordinated fraud schemes through its administrative investigations and undertakes fraud disruption techniques in collaboration with the Canada Border Services Agency, and for that I want to thank the individual who is here assisting us with this study. If there are any questions in relation to that, I will ask him to address them because I know he would have those answers. I believe he's also attended other committee meetings on this topic, because CBSA is responsible for pursuing enforcement action related to foreign nationals in Canada.

A combination of recent program reforms and an enhanced focus on program integrity is increasing refusal rates. I believe everybody has seen that across the country, as well as across the different lines of requests that people are sending to the department. However, rates are expected to stabilize over time as prospective students and institutions adapt to the updated requirements and non-genuine students are disincentivized from accessing the system.

There have been a number of incidents of international student fraud. Again, the good news is that we are seeing that come down. There will be some regulatory amendments when the bill passes, in whatever manner it passes, that will also address the unsustainable growth. The government is introducing measures to strengthen the integrity of the international student program and better protect the students themselves as well.

I'm happy to give you more.

The point of the bill, as well as the measures that were taken before, is that the system is not only catching fraud but also deterring it. That is something I would stress that we want Canadians to know, as well as people who are coming and applying to immigrate to Canada or coming in using our temporary streams.

Again, Prime Minister Carney has been very clear in his mandate letter. He's been very clear to Canadians that our role is to stabilize the numbers to bring us down to 1% of the permanent resident population and to stabilize the number of temporary residents at 5% of the population by 2029, as well as to create an attraction strategy for the best talent.

Of course, we are very much looking forward to working with stakeholders, provinces and territories to increase our francophone immigration numbers.

[Amandeep Sodhi, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Perfect. Thank you for your well-detailed answer, Minister.

My next question is for any of the IRCC officials or the minister.

As we know, an important part of Bill C-12 concerns the ability of the government to share information, whether that's across departments or with law enforcement, and with the provinces and territories. Can any one of you please outline how the bill's information-sharing provisions will improve co-operation and coordination across government partners?

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

I can start, and then I can turn it over for a bit more.

Part of the bill that has been introduced is to improve how client information is shared within IRCC and with federal, provincial and territorial government partners. I think that is an extremely important part of the provisions. It would facilitate the sharing of immigration, citizenship and passport information, with our domestic partners to help improve the integrity of government programs and provide better client service.

Of course, we take privacy seriously. There are safeguards. We will need to have regulations in there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

You have one minute.

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Why don't I hand it off? There's less than a minute.

[Tara Lang, Director General, Integrity Policy and Programs, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

These proposed changes will close gaps in how we share client information, saving time and money. Federal, provincial and territorial partners will get faster access to this info, which they might use to confirm the identity of people who arrive in Canada through the immigration system, which is needed to deliver and give people access to a variety of public services and support their successful integration. They're going to detect people who use different identities to defraud benefit programs and other services, which will allow us to carry out law enforcement activities and investigations.

We're also going to be able to share client information across IRCC to reduce the amount of information that applicants need to resubmit as they apply for different programs. This will lower the risk of discrepancies between case files belonging to the same person. It will make decision-making for the IRCC more efficient, and it will help us improve the integrity of our programs and better detect fraud.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

Thank you so much.

That's six minutes exactly.

Mrs. DeBellefeuille, welcome to our committee.

You have six minutes.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I am pleased to meet you, Minister.

As you know, there is a backlog in processing refugee claims. People claiming refugee status integrate into their communities, but often it takes two or three years before they learn whether or not their refugee status has been recognized. It takes eight to nine months before they obtain their work permits. There is a backlog of applications.

I wonder how you will manage, Minister, given the powers granted to you in part 6 of Bill C‑12, which stipulates that all applications deemed admissible by the officer will land on your desk before being finally approved. This means that an officer does the work and, normally, if the application is approved, the officer will forward it on. However, it will land on your desk. Don't you think you are too busy to be able to process the asylum and refugee applications that will land on your desk within a reasonable time?

I'm a little surprised. It seems to me that you already have enough work to do.

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you for that question.

I agree, there is a lot of work to be done. That is why I am here, alongside so many competent people.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

Can you tell me whether, as a minister, you think you will be able to process all the files requiring your approval that will land on your desk within a reasonable time frame? That is what the bill states. Since you are already inundated with work, I wonder how you will manage to do that.

Can you give me a straightforward and quick answer?

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Absolutely.

I will ask Mr. Gionet to answer.

[Jean-Marc Gionet]

Thank you for your question.

We anticipate an increase in inadmissible claims to the Immigration and Refugee Board, or IRB. We are preparing to ensure that we have enough decision-makers to handle the anticipated increase in order to implement the measure in the bill that seeks to make the system more efficient.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

Can you explain what “prescribed time limit” means? Do you have any idea of the time limit you would like to meet at this step in the process?

Let's take a concrete example. A request physically arrives on your desk, accompanied by a recommendation from the agent that the applicant's refugee status be recognized. Can you tell me what the prescribed time limit would be? You really should be able to tell me. What are your plans?

I am wondering why you don't want to answer me. It's part of your powers. Why are you delegating this to a civil servant?

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

It's because there are numerous laws involved.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

Minister, we are discussing a bill that gives you considerable power. I am somewhat surprised that you are unable to defend this measure without the help of your official. My question is not complicated. I am asking you what the prescribed time limit is. Do you have any idea what time limit you would like to meet at this step? It is a fairly simple question, really.

Do you know the answer?