Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 22nd, 2026

[Renze Nauta]

We identified foreign credential recognition. This a complicated topic, certainly, but part of the solution has to be a greater understanding on the part of regulators in Canada of what the education systems in other parts of the world are.

More than anything, political will is necessary to break through some of the differences in credential recognition across the country. There are so many different regimes in Canada. That's a factor of our being a federation, and there are occasionally legitimate reasons for this, but I think we also have to recognize that some of those differences are causing a national problem for accommodating and integrating these recent immigrants to Canada.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Do you have an estimate of how much economic potential Canada is losing out on by keeping highly educated, skilled immigrants out of the fields they studied?

[Renze Nauta]

I don't have a specific number. I wish I had brought the report to this committee. If I recall correctly, approximately 74% of immigrants to Canada—or perhaps recent immigrants to Canada—who are members of the working class are over-credentialed for the work they're doing. You have to think about what kind of work those people could be doing if they could apply their education to the Canadian marketplace. I'm not sure of the exact number, but the figure I would leave you with is that 74% of the immigrant working class in Canada is over-credentialed.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Wow. I mean, that's an astounding number in itself, 74%.

What specific barriers do you see in the Red Seal certification process that prevent experienced foreign tradespeople from entering the workforce quickly?

[Renze Nauta]

I'd like to focus perhaps on the solution, which is that we need faster processing and systems in place to accommodate the difficulty for immigrants with skilled trades so that they can come to Canada and perform those duties. I think it's a matter of political will to establish timelines and to establish direction to certain regulatory bodies to ensure that this gets done.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Ms. Morris, Liberal Bill C-12 specifically redirected thousands of applications into the pre-removal risk assessment stream. Given your observation that PRRA decisions frequently contain legal errors, what is the likelihood that we direct thousands of claimants to this stream who simply shift the asylum backlog from the IRB to an already overwhelmed Federal Court system?

[Stéfanie Morris]

Thank you for the question. Yes, I think this is something many lawyers and legal advocates are warning about—that Bill C-12 is likely to switch the backlog from the Immigration and Refugee Board to the IRCC and eventually to the Federal Court, where many of these decisions are litigated. I agree that it's likely to create a backlog in another part of the government, which is not necessarily filled with public servants who are trained to make these decisions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

Thank you, Ms. Morris.

Thank you, Mr. Menegakis. I wanted to call you “Mr. Fragiskatos”, but it's Menegakis.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

That's okay.

He's my brother from another mother.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

We have a Greek contingent here today.

Next, we have six minutes for Ms. Zahid.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre—Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thanks to all the witnesses for appearing before the committee.

My questions are for Dr. Triandafyllidou.

You have studied migration narratives across different countries. How important is it for governments to demonstrate that immigration is being managed in a deliberate and evidence-based way, in order to counter the misinformation and polarization happening? Can you please point to some specific examples of how other jurisdictions have handled immigration policy that Canada can look to as success stories?

[Dr. Anna Triandafyllidou]

I'm afraid that we are the success story.

I spent over 25 years of my career in Europe. I don't think we have a healthy debate there, in most countries—both old and new immigration hosts—in terms of what the needs of the economy and society are, what our immigrants bring and how we should organize and regulate migration and integration. Canada has been the gold standard, and I'm worried we might be losing that.

I had one more point in my comments that I didn't get to.

I'm concerned that a lot of criticism of the government's immigration policy has reflected on immigrants. The way it has been reported in our country, even in the mainstream media.... They talk negatively about the policy so that, at the end of the day, the average citizen or average permanent resident is thinking immigrants are the problem. We have forgotten how much immigrants did during the pandemic to keep our hospitals, food processing chains and basic services going.

There are even some studies that say, “Oh, we've had too much of an influx from South Asia, in terms of study permit holders. That's a problem.” I don't think it's a problem. The problem is the whole thing with international education and how international students have been subsidizing our own kids' education. Also, as mentioned in the previous panel, this fuels gaps in employment, in which employers don't want to improve wages and conditions.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre—Don Valley East, ON]

Thanks for indicating the contributions of immigrants.

Your research emphasizes that migration is a long-term, structured reality, rather than a crisis.

In this context, what specific policy choices can government make to strengthen public trust in the immigration system while maintaining high levels of immigration, particularly when public perception may not align with economic needs? That's the problem with public trust right now.

[Dr. Anna Triandafyllidou]

I think we need to tell those stories. In Canada, there are many stories of people who came here as permanent residents or temporary permit holders for study or work and transitioned to being citizens or permanent residents. They are building our businesses and communities. We need to tell those stories in terms of both numbers and real stories people can relate to.

I'm concerned that we've been focusing on smaller problems, rather than seeing the bigger picture. We know we're an aging society. We know 40% of our medical and paramedical personnel are non-Canadian-born. We even know we are short on family doctors. There are many family doctors who cannot practise because their credentials are not recognized. We need to tell those stories.

There is an additional complication, these days: social media. People always read the newspaper they agree with and watch the TV channel they agree with. Right now, we have the algorithm proposing, to each of us, which people we agree with. This is a very important issue that risks polarizing debate.

I also want to comment on the erroneous connection between affordable housing and immigration. Housing prices started rising in 2019 and 2020, when we had the lowest immigration. Then they kept rising. There are other dynamics there. It seems to be a pure, mathematical equation—“We have so many people, and we have so many houses.” That is very simplistic, and economists tell us it's wrong.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre—Don Valley East, ON]

You have written extensively about identity, belonging and the role of integration in shaping the social cohesion. You also mentioned in your opening remarks about the integration of the new immigrant movement. What are the most effective policies Canada can adopt to ensure that newcomers integrate successfully, while also strengthening a shared sense of belonging among all Canadians? How does this link to rebuilding trust in the system overall?

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

You have 45 seconds.

[Dr. Anna Triandafyllidou]

I'll say transparency—speak honestly to the citizens. What are the things we got wrong? Are there things we need to make right? Also, there's no one-size-fits-all solution. We have to work in different parts of the system.

I also want to emphasize that, as I said before, we have a gender issue. We have highly skilled women who don't get the supports they need. If we saw the government supporting the households and supporting the women to realize their talent, it would certainly improve trust in the institutions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

Thank you so much, Ms. Zahid. Thank you so much, Professor.

Mr. Deschênes, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here and for their insightful contributions.

I'd like to offer a Quebec perspective. In Quebec, we receive a significant number of asylum seekers, for many geographical reasons. According to the latest figures, 37% of asylum claims are made in Quebec, even though we account for 22% of the Canadian population. There is a proposal that Quebec has been advocating for some time, and which the Bloc Québécois also supports: We need to find a mechanism whereby each province takes in a number of asylum seekers that roughly corresponds to its population, to ensure that everyone does their bit and that we can welcome them properly.

I'd like to go around the table and begin with a very open-ended question: What is your view on the proposal to distribute asylum seekers among the provinces?

Ms. Morris, you may answer first.

[Stéfanie Morris]

I'm sorry, I'll answer in English so I can better express myself.

With regard to asylum claimants, 37% make their claims in Quebec. You're asking about the redistribution of refugee claimants across Canada.

I hesitate to think this could be a solution to the problem, because in the long run, people have selected certain places to settle in for particular reasons, which could be to their benefit and to Canada's benefit economically in the long run. Let's say we're talking about asylum claimants who have gone to Quebec because they speak French in particular, or they have family in the region. As we know, a lot of people crossing from the United States into Canada are coming because they have anchor relatives in Canada.

If they come to those regions because they want to be close to their culture, their language and their family, and then they're relocated to other places, I can see this being a real challenge for long-term integration—socially, economically and in terms of belonging. I would be hesitant to say that this will provide the solutions to this issue.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

What are your thoughts, Mr. Nauta?

[Renze Nauta]

Thank you for the question.

I'd also like to speak in English so I can be more precise.

I would approach your question by going back to the very end of my remarks, in which I talked about the different kinds of questions that policy-makers have to ask themselves to get at this idea of subsidiarity, which is a crucial concept for what you're talking about.

In my paper, one thing I address is that governments have to ask themselves questions about who's closest to the issue and should actually deal with it. Sometimes decisions are made by a government that's far away from the situation and not sufficiently attuned to the local realities of what's going on. Involvement of the Government of Quebec, or the government of some municipalities in Quebec and civil society, is going to be an important factor in this question.

There are also questions of efficiency. Which level of government is going to deal with it most efficiently?

I would skip to the last set of issues when it comes to subsidiarity, and that's questions of capacity. I talk about the capacity of a society to absorb the asylum seekers you're talking about, as well as the capacity of levels of government to address an issue. Sometimes the federal government doesn't have the capacity to deal with everything. It is in the government's interest to delegate some authority to lower levels of government or to civil society itself.

I would say that the combination of identifying which level of society is going to be best able to understand the issues that are happening with asylum seekers in Quebec and which level of society is best able to decide on capacity are both parts of this principle of subsidiarity that are relevant to your question.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Thank you.

To wrap up, what's your opinion on the issue, Professor Triandafyllidou?

[Dr. Anna Triandafyllidou]

Thank you for your question.

I think solidarity between provinces is a principle inherent to the federation. I also agree with Mr. Nauta on the principle of subsidiarity. It is true that this is somewhat a quirk of Quebec’s geography, but it is also an honour, in a way, because Quebec is the Canadian province most committed to public assistance, offering the greatest protection to its people.

I'm proud of Quebec for being so solidarity-minded. It has a very active civil society. Beyond that, the local and the provincial authorities could decide on redistributing people among the smaller communities in Quebec that are aging fast and need a workforce with younger people. This might be a solution.