Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 27th, 2026

[Dr. Yvonne Su]

Yes. Speaking specifically about international students, first of all, I have many in my classrooms. Not only do I see the narratives that are playing out publicly among policy-makers, but I also see how it plays out for them. A lot of those narratives are that international students are here, they're taking advantage, they're applying for asylum, they're stealing houses and they're stealing jobs. They're all extremely negative.

The reason that's the case is that they are the group with the least amount of power. They can't vote. They are easily deported. Their study permits are easily revoked. They have very little power, and as a result it's really easy to blame them.

However, if you take another second and think about it, international students are often quite poor. They've spent so much of their money to study here because the tuition is about five times more than it is for domestic students. Therefore, they're not competing for your $1,500 or $2,000 condos in Toronto. They're often living in bunk beds in basements that are unregulated or sharing beds with other international students for $300 to $500.

That is not the competition that is causing a lot of Canadians to not be able to afford their own homes.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London Centre, ON]

I don't mean to cut you off, but my time is limited.

[Dr. Yvonne Su]

Sure. Go on.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London Centre, ON]

Still on the subject of international students, you talked about particular colleges. I believe you said the problem was overwhelmingly concentrated in four colleges.

Could you go into that some more?

[Dr. Yvonne Su]

I have them here. I thought you'd ask me.

We have Seneca Polytechnic, which had 1,540. There's Niagara College, with 1,310. There's Conestoga College, with 1, 090—

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London Centre, ON]

I'm sorry to interrupt, but just for context, what do the numbers you're giving relate to?

[Dr. Yvonne Su]

They're the number of asylum claims.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London Centre, ON]

That's just for the record.

[Dr. Yvonne Su]

Yes. Then there's Cape Breton University. These were all over 1,000.

The thing that's clear to me is that this is all in the IRB data and the IRCC data. It didn't take me very long to look through the Excel sheets.

Then there are three that had 100% asylum rates. They took in 10, and there were 10 asylum applications that same year. Those three are the Institute of Technology Development of Canada, the Canadian Technology College and DEA Canadian College.

When you see those numbers and you look at the rates for asylum, it's very clear that something is happening at those institutions. Either the students are being coached or they're encouraged. Something is happening. It's very obvious that we should investigate them. There should be conversations, and we should not just say that it's a big problem.

There are 650 institutions that allow international students, and we're saying there are just these seven that are causing a lot of problems. Why are we not just going after these seven? Why are we painting all international students with the same brush and saying they're bad? There's been a lot of demonization.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

Professor Su, Mr. Fragiskatos, I'm just noticing that the bells are ringing.

I'll need unanimous consent to continue, and I'd like to propose that we continue until 12:45. That's 15 minutes before the vote.

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

We will continue.

I'll restart your time, Mr. Fragiskatos. You have two minutes and 39 seconds.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London Centre, ON]

Thank you very much.

I read your op-ed on March 9 in the Toronto Star. Among other things, in discussing immigration, you quoted Statistics Canada when you wrote, “immigrants remain deeply embedded across Canada's labour market: they make up more than a third of workers in accommodation and food services, transportation and warehousing, and professional and technical sectors, and over one-fifth of the construction workforce. As such, a very large share of economic outputs is produced by immigrants.”

With your final points, could you go into that further, less so on the data side and more so in terms of the economic contribution that immigrants continue to make in this country? The government has increased the proportion of economic migrants to 64%. There's no nation building that can happen without immigrants, as you've said.

[Dr. Yvonne Su]

Of course, and I would like to bring that back to my great-grandfather, who came here during the railroad time, who came to help nation build. As a result of policies, he was sent home. I think a lot of temporary workers, a lot of migrants who are coming to Canada, feel the same. They've come here. They've contributed their skills. They've sacrificed greatly. They pay taxes. They help you make money. Then, when it's not so feasible when it comes to public opinion or when it doesn't look so good, the switch is turned off, and the policies are not towards welcoming more people. Instead, these people are either sent home through their visa expirations or the lack of pathways, or go home “voluntarily”—and I put that in quotation marks because of racism, xenophobia and just having a hard time here.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London Centre, ON]

There might be a second round, and I'll be up for that.

However, what would you want to leave the committee here with in terms of your key recommendation? You've shared a few things, but what would be your key recommendation?

[Dr. Yvonne Su]

If I were to distill it, I think international students were a really good policy for Canada. These are people who have ambition and who have worked really hard in their own countries to get to the top to qualify to come to Canada. I think our initial policy of inviting them, of giving them an opportunity to work and contribute when they came to Canada, was really good. We do need to manage the numbers, but I think we've gone completely towards overcorrection when we're going to do 150,000 for 2026. That number is too low.

If we continue in that direction, we're cutting off talent that's coming to Canada and contributing and that can stay and be good Canadians. It is a very good pipeline, and I think we need to look at the merits of it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

Thank you, Professor Su.

Thank you, Mr. Fragiskatos.

Mr. Champoux, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Kurland, you're a recognized expert in immigration policy. You have been practising for a long time. You generally try to improve immigration systems by making them more fair, transparent and effective. You want to ensure that they have a direct impact on legislation and public policy.

Is that a good outline?

[Richard Kurland]

Yes. Thank you.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Kurland, I would like to talk to you today about the excessive burden imposed on Quebec in particular, and on Ontario to a certain extent, when it comes to taking in asylum seekers.

For a number of years now, Quebec has been calling for a better distribution of asylum seekers. As you know, this situation affects public policy and community services. The social safety net is under immense strain. It's extremely difficult, particularly in Quebec, to properly accommodate the large number of asylum seekers that we must take in. We've been proposing solutions for a long time.

Europe has a solution that I find noteworthy. Perhaps you can tell me whether it could work here.

A type of agreement has been reached concerning the distribution of asylum seekers among countries. However, some countries may be unable or unwilling to take in their fair share of asylum seekers. An alternative solution consists of contributing financially to help countries that agree to take in more.

Would this approach comply with Canadian legislation?

Would this approach work here, among Quebec and the provinces, to ensure a fair financial and physical distribution?

[Richard Kurland]

That's interesting.

It's important to note that Quebec, in my opinion, more than any other province, pays the highest cost socially, economically and politically for compliance with the Canadian federal structure of refugee determination. That's been the case for, literally, generations at this point.

Now, the European suggestion is interesting, and I would encourage, if that's appropriate, Quebec to use its jurisdiction to perhaps facilitate the introduction onto Canadian soil of the European solution. What's wrong with Quebec delegations going to other countries for discussions of common interests? There's nothing untoward if Quebec were to diplomatically move pieces on the chessboard to resolve the high price paid by Quebec.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I find your comments intriguing. Quebec really does often try to make representations about its capacity to take in newcomers and also about its desire to do so.

When we talk about taking them in, we mean properly accommodating them while taking into account the capacity to fulfill the aspirations of people who want to settle here. This includes refugees, economic immigrants and immigrants of all kinds. We're an accommodating nation, but we still need the means to take them in.

I don't want to sound cynical. I certainly don't want you to share my cynicism, if that's the case. However, for a long time now, it seems that the proposals put forward by Quebec haven't been taken up by Ottawa.

Furthermore, over the years, this situation has come up again and again. We're receiving more immigration applications from asylum seekers. The Quebec government has been asking for help for generations. We could be cynical. We could think that a political agenda lies behind this.

Do you have an opinion on this?

I have one, but I would like to hear your thoughts on this.

[Richard Kurland]

Yes, I have an opinion, and it's that there's nothing prohibiting Quebec from engaging with other countries for discussions on common interests, whether it's Quebec going to American states regarding the fishery sector or things like that. I see it as an appropriate, timely subject that Quebec may want to consider in the wider context of Quebec relations with the rest of the world, particularly given the problems we're having to the south.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I'll be cynical again. Please tell me to move on to another topic if you don't want to get into this, Mr. Kurland.

Depending on the political situation at the time, would Ottawa be pleased if Quebec were to end up with a whole host of problems with managing issues that warrant greater sensitivity and humanity, such as asylum seekers?

We don't seem very kind when we talk about having too many. However, we aren't unkind. We're just unable to deliver services to them and to the public.

Would Ottawa be pleased, at times, to see Quebec struggling with issues of this nature?

[Richard Kurland]

They should. Ottawa should take cognizance of this. Remember, the mission here is to keep the problems originating from outside Canada from entering Canada. Go and visit Concordia University or McGill University. These are problems that originate from outside and have been imported into Quebec.

Quebec has an obligation to protect the Quebec population from external influences and foreign influences. Those can include the wider immigration context of refugee determination, but that mandate is significantly larger.