Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 27th, 2026

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Of those 17,500 plus, do we have no transparency on that, either?

[Richard Kurland]

What you look for there is something that is beyond proportionate. If you know that most people are coming from country A to Canada, reasonably, one would expect that same proportion to apply in bad people coming to Canada from that country.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

There appears to be a two-tiered system for forgiving foreign criminals. The less-serious offences, we're told, are reviewed by IRCC officers with the right authority. The more serious cases are reviewed by the Minister of Immigration personally.

[Richard Kurland]

Yes.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

I have a couple of questions on that front.

Are you aware of any cases that were reviewed by the minister personally?

[Richard Kurland]

Yes, over a quarter of a century, that experience has come to light. The minister has a challenging position but a good position. The minister can access our intelligence information to get to the root: Is this crime a politically motivated crime in terms of foreign government enforcement? Did that foreign government create a “criminal” for their domestic purposes?

Ministers can resolve that, but ultimately it is the minister who takes responsibility for protecting the public.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

I find it difficult to ascertain why the minister would have an authority over and above the advice they're getting from their officials—at the IRCC, for example—in order to make a decision like that. Most Canadians, I would argue, would expect that people coming to the country don't have criminal records, period.

I understand that some of them may be frivolous, depending on whether they're coming from a country that doesn't have a judicial system on par with Canada's, but it is certainly very concerning. Living in a community where I've seen criminals coming into our community, walking the streets and threatening people on a daily basis, I find it is a very concerning fact.

[Richard Kurland]

That's correct—it's not my place to say that it's correct.

Universities have tenure. Public servants don't enjoy that luxury, and a public servant who signs off on one of these criminality cases is betting the pension.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Let me switch gears for a moment.

You've also spoken about the many different software companies that were working in IRCC's e-filing system. How many were there?

[Richard Kurland]

Do you mean e-files?

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

I mean the e-filing system.

[Richard Kurland]

Oh my goodness. It's not enough to just look at the public servants. You have to lob in the contracts to the private sector. It's a very significant, important aspect.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

I believe you said it was about 150—

[Richard Kurland]

That's a minimum, yes.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

—in the YouTube clip that I saw.

Were these companies all working together, or were they communicating with each other at all?

[Richard Kurland]

That has been the number one problem for close to 35 years of the IT delivery system at IRCC. You ended up with 150 silos, contractors not working together, all designing just one part of the elephant and not considering the whole.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

We certainly know that the immigration system, at least over the last 10 or 11 years, has been a mess, with seven immigration ministers in the last 10 years.

What are some of the common problems that applicants are experiencing when trying to file their documents, with all of the work that's been done with this new system?

[Richard Kurland]

It's basic, fundamental consumer protection failure—the absence of clear, consistent and simple instructions for the most basic immigration tasks of filing—and it's repetitive, duplicative services.

If I apply for a visitor visa and then I want to apply for something else, I have to redo 50 questions instead of having one file—as CRA does with My Account—to which I add or modify pre-existing information to get the next level of service. That's duplicative effort and a waste of government money.

Also, people will make mistakes because they don't realize that they gave an answer 15 years ago that has different information from today, and they end up with an immigration problem as a result.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

Thank you, Mr. Kurland.

Thank you, Mr. Menegakis.

Next, we have five minutes for Mr. Fragiskatos.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[A voice]

It's six minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

Oh, it's six minutes. I'm sorry. I'll increase it.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London Centre, ON]

I was not doubting you at all, but look at the non-partisan nature of the committee. My Conservative colleague stuck up for me.

In any case, thank you to all our witnesses for being here today.

Professor Su, we had very interesting testimony from you.

[Dr. Yvonne Su]

Thank you.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London Centre, ON]

You talked about narratives in public perception. On that general point, could you elaborate?