Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Sept. 25th, 2025

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr. Agnew, 53% of your revenue is coming from students who are not Canadians. It's from international students, according to your annual report. One can easily question the motive, whether your intent is really to subsidize or assist the remaining 47%, who are Canadians. You are a Canadian educational institution.

[David Agnew]

Why would you question that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

Thank you so much, Mr. Menegakis.

Thank you, Mr. Agnew.

Next, we have five minutes for Ms. Sodhi.

[Amandeep Sodhi, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

First and foremost, I want to thank the three of you for being here today and for taking the time out of your busy schedules to meet with us.

I would like to frame my first set of questions around the role of provinces and immigration, and in particular around international student enrolment.

My questions are for you, Mr. Agnew.

How important has the lack of provincial government funding been in influencing the rapid growth of international student enrolment over the past few years?

[David Agnew]

I don't think the financial challenges of the post-secondary system, particularly in Ontario, are a mystery to anybody. Obviously, one of the responses was to try to ensure our survival, frankly. That coincided with a very aggressive set of immigration targets that were set by the federal government. We were really out there co-recruiting with the federal government. There's a video that you can still find on the IRCC website that says, “Study—Explore—Work—Stay”. It's an appeal to international students to come. That was also being pushed from that area.

It was happening in two ways. We need more financial resources. I don't think it's any mystery. There's been a financial tuition freeze in Ontario for some time now. It's an old financial model, which is being looked at by the provincial government, very gratefully. At the same time, there were very aggressive immigration targets being set. The two came together at the same time.

[Amandeep Sodhi, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you for your answer.

I'll move on to my second question. Do you believe that there were any early warning signs that the provincial government should have either responded to or engaged with, regarding housing availability, student well-being and/or institutional capacity?

[David Agnew]

I'm not sure I understand about institutional capacity. I don't quite understand what you mean by that.

I'm not in government. I don't have the policy levers. I don't have the analytics, statistics and data to understand how early those things could be felt. I know that people were talking about a housing price increase that was out of control in Toronto, for instance, and in some other cities. If you look at the data, that actually mostly predated the big uptick in international student populations.

[Amandeep Sodhi, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you, once again.

My next question is for Mr. Asselin.

How have your institutions adapted to the recent changes in international student policies, including the cap and financial requirements?

[Robert Asselin]

Thank you for the question.

Obviously, what I wanted to lay out today was not that our U15 universities are struggling financially as a result of this. I wanted to lay out very clearly in front of this committee that we're handicapping Canada's economic future by targeting graduate students the way we have done with these changes. It's been very harmful. I think our institutions will be fine. We'll keep the highest standard of excellence going forward. I'm very proud of the role that we play in Canadian society.

The issue for this committee is really to think about immigration policy, the international student study permit cap and how it relates to graduate students.

[Amandeep Sodhi, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

My second question for you is this. In your opinion, how do you think these reforms might be able to reduce the exploitation risk associated with some private colleges and unfair recruitment practices?

[Robert Asselin]

Again, I'm afraid this is outside my wheelhouse. I'm not here to talk about colleges. I'm not an expert on colleges. I don't have a line of sight into what colleges do. I will leave it to others to comment on that.

[Amandeep Sodhi, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

I'll ask this very quickly, because I know we have 20 seconds left.

Do you believe that the international student cap will enhance Canada's global reputation as a destination for well-supported international education?

[Robert Asselin]

I believe it has handicapped our reputation very gravely, unfortunately. When my university presidents travel abroad, it's clear that the message we have sent is very negative: “Don't come to Canada; we don't want you here.” It's very harmful.

It's going to take some time, by the way, to re-establish this. This is why reforms are so urgent, in my opinion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

Thank you, Ms. Sodhi.

Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would be remiss if I didn't mention the fact that the Liberals' strategy is rather amusing, because they are talking about provincial politics, when this motion concerns a federal program.

Mr. Blanchette, don't you think it's problematic for the federal government to implement measures affecting all regions without taking into account the different regional and linguistic realities?

[Christian Blanchette]

There is no doubt that a number of regions in Canada were surprised.

I'll give you some statistics specific to Quebec. In 2018, there were 314,000 international and domestic students in the Quebec university system. In 2022, there were 316,000 students, and in 2025, we're at 318,000 students.

There hasn't been a massive explosion in the number of students. Housing is a major issue in some regions. In Quebec, there are essentially 12 university towns, if we include the cities around Montreal. In most cases, Quebec, Canadian and international students migrate to these cities. At UQTR, two thirds of our students do not come from the city or region of Trois-Rivières. They come from elsewhere in Quebec and around the world.

For us, the housing issue is important. We have never had difficulty in finding housing for our students, even when there was a shortage. However, we increased the number of student housing units in 2014 by 44% by establishing partnerships.

We're making a major effort because people are saying in the public sphere that universities are creating the housing problem. That may be true in some places, but I don't see it in most Quebec cities. We really need to look at this situation by looking at the real data on housing.

The housing shortage problem exists everywhere. I lived in Toronto for 13 years, and I can tell you that there was a housing shortage in Toronto in 1985.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Madam Chair, is my time up?

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

You have only eight seconds.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

In that case, I would like to thank all the witnesses for coming here for this important study.

We're going to compile all their testimony and all their recommendations with the help of our fabulous analysts.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

Thank you, Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe.

Because we've run out of time, if it's okay, I'm going to give two minutes to Mr. Davies and two minutes to Mr. Zuberi.

Go ahead, Mr. Davies.

[Fred Davies, Conservative, Niagara South, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll be very brief.

I want to follow up on what my colleague pointed to today, to sort of wrap this up with a little bow.

Mr. Agnew, you have built a college campus in Cairo. You made reference to the need to bring revenue back to Canada. That concerns me, particularly when 53% of your student population is international students. To me, this looks like a bit of a cash cow. You have taken an educational model and turned it into an entrepreneurial model.

I'm interested to know, do you have a remuneration package that has performance bonuses based on revenue?

[David Agnew]

No.

One of the things I've noticed as I've travelled around the world is that many countries actually encourage their institutions to export their excellent, quality education. You see many—

[Fred Davies, Conservative, Niagara South, ON]

I'm sorry. I don't have much time here, sir.

[David Agnew]

Just to clarify, we're not building the campus. I've already made that point. We're not putting one cent of capital into that campus.

[Fred Davies, Conservative, Niagara South, ON]

You made reference to the fact that this revenue does come back to Canada to fund programs in Canada, which are 53% taken in by international students. To me, you've taken a model of the free-flowing, open-ended access to foreign students and you've built campuses around that flawed business model, and the consequences are now coming home to the reality that the tap has been turned off.

Do you know whether there are any other campuses that have as high a level of international students as your institution?