Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Sept. 25th, 2025

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Did you raise this issue with the government in any way?

[Larissa Bezo]

We were certainly having discussions with government broadly in terms of student flows and the overall direction of the program, and broadly in terms of the policy pieces. We were starting to see pressures build in some communities. We saw that there needed to be further conversation on these issues.

However, we warned very explicitly in our submissions to IRCC, in their consultations on the future direction of immigration, that caps were not the best way to approach this. We needed to engage with provinces, the federal government and our institutions to look at a much more tailored and measured way to address some of the pressures we were starting to see build.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

That's interesting. You did warn the government about this, and they chose not to act on it. Eventually, of course, they had to, but in those days they didn't.

I want to talk about immigration consultants, briefly. A regulated international student immigration adviser, or RISIA, is a special type of immigration consultant. I think you know about those. Their purpose, of course, is to encourage international students to come to Canada.

Ms. Bezo, do you agree that immigration consultants are partly responsible for the explosion in international students in Canada?

[Larissa Bezo]

The role of the regulated international student immigration advisers isn't to promote Canada; their role is to provide explicit immigration advice on a broad range of immigration matters related to students. That could be issues related to study permits or postgraduate work permits. RISIAs are not involved in the promotion of opportunities in Canada. They are there to support students, specifically as it relates to immigration, advising within the framework of our Immigration and Refugee Protection Act.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Practically, how that looks at a college is that their job is to try to get as many people into the college as possible. Is that true?

[Larissa Bezo]

Actually, they're there to ensure that the institution is meeting its quality assurance commitments and to manage integrity challenges with respect to study permit applications and other immigration-related issues. They are really there to support in a very transparent and direct way.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you.

I just want to point out—and you can correct me if I'm wrong—that you do receive about $4,000 for every one of these who is trained. Is that correct?

[Larissa Bezo]

CBIE has a role to play in preparing international student advisers to write the entry-to-practice exam to become designated.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

I noticed that, in your introduction, you spoke glowingly and used the word “ethical” quite a number of times, but I didn't actually hear you say anything about the youth job crisis that we have in Canada. It would seem to me that if you lose students from one source—in this case, international students.... In the GTA alone, there are about 200,000 unemployed youth. It's approaching 20%. What are you doing to try to attract those youth to your colleges to get them trained up?

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

Could you give a quick response, please?

[Larissa Bezo]

Yes.

Our institutions, in their day-to-day work, broadly, in terms of their education offerings, are very much focused on aligning programming to support the evolving labour market needs in Canada and in our communities.

We've certainly seen, with the latest recalibrations around the PGWP, a further alignment to ensure that our graduates are, in fact, job-ready. We are hearing from employers about positions that they still struggle to fill, absent both domestic and international talent.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

Thank you so much, Ms. Bezo.

Thank you, Mr. Redekopp.

We now proceed with six minutes for Mr. Fragiskatos.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London Centre, ON]

Chair, thank you very much.

Thank you to our witnesses.

Ms. Bezo, I'll begin with you. You made a number of interesting comments in your presentation, but I was particularly taken when you said that there is a need to get away from “corrosive public rhetoric”. What do you mean by that?

[Larissa Bezo]

I think that over the course of these last 18 to 20 months, we have seen a considerable amount of scapegoating and blame directed towards international students who have chosen to come to study at our institutions. I think we've seen very divisive language that separates those students, rather than taking a much more inclusive approach of wanting to welcome them and to speak about ways in which we can integrate them into our communities and into the broader Canadian society.

From our perspective, in a situation where Canada relies on both domestic and global talent to secure our future prosperity, we need to take a more inclusive approach that values the contributions of international students. They are our future builders, planners, engineers and entrepreneurs, as are our Canadian youth, and we need to find a balanced approach to engage and nurture their integration.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London Centre, ON]

Thank you.

I know that your expertise is in the area of international students, but can I go one step further and ask if you would extend that comment about a corrosive narrative that's out there to immigration issues and immigration policy in general?

[Larissa Bezo]

I think we're seeing a rise in that kind of corrosive rhetoric, broadly, in a global sense. I just returned from a global summit in London, meeting with my peers. We are seeing these kinds of challenges, given the migration trends and given the mounting pressures. I think this is a broad discussion where we need to really focus on where we're going as a country and on the message we want to send to the world in terms of being welcome and seeing the value of our youth—all of our youth.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London Centre, ON]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Côté, I appreciated your presentation as well, particularly on the need to focus on the future and not dwell on the past. Clearly, there was an imbalance, to say the least, with the numbers, as you and other witnesses have noted and as this committee has understood very well.

Of the various ideas that you put forward, sir, can you provide us with your key recommendation, for this committee and for the government, on the international student program?

[André Côté]

I think there are a few places where the federal government can roll back some aspects of what it did, where it overextended in some of the places I talked about, such as for postgraduate work permits and for colleges around graduate students. Again, broadly, I felt as though we had a demand-driven system that was a little bit out of control and these types of reforms were needed to pull it back in.

With regard to Alex's point, the collaborative federalism is huge. This is a system jointly administered with provinces and also, critically, with institutions and various other players, like third party recruiters, so there needs to be a team approach. I think the federal government needs to engage with the provinces on how they're doing their part around oversight of designated learning institutions. I think the federal government can say, “Listen, PTs, if you're showing us that you're stepping up to the plate there, maybe we'll be able to pull back on some of the areas that you feel are overly restrictive for you or for your institutions.”

I think the brand Canada piece is really huge. We have an opportunity now, if we get our act together and do it as a team Canada thing. Looking to the future, let's work together on that, as opposed to being upset about our collective failures in the past.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London Centre, ON]

Thank you very much.

On the topic of co-operative federalism, federal responsibility and provincial responsibility, we haven't talked about the provinces. I take the point you just raised about the provinces, but it seems to me that tuition is a key issue here.

Mr. Usher, this question is for you. In a comment that you made to the ICEF Monitor—this is an online page that focuses on international students and international education policy generally—about recent changes made by IRCC, you said:

We're talking about hundreds of program closures and all those high-cost programs in health and trades are 100% on the table, because the provincial government simply does not fund these programs at an adequate level. They've been cross subsidized for years by international students. It's going to be a program apocalypse, one that provincial governments are completely unprepared to handle because international student fees have allowed them to stay in denial about the extent of their own underfunding over the past decade.

You made that comment in specific reference to the Government of Ontario, but there are other provinces that it could apply to.

Could you speak about the need for provincial governments to step up funding with respect to tuition? While colleges were involved in this—and universities, obviously, but particularly colleges—I think they are getting a particularly bad rap, considering the fact that tuition was not there for them. It certainly was not there for them as it was a number of years ago. If you compare provincial education funding for colleges and universities in the early 1990s to where it's at today, you will see that there has been a dramatic decline, and that opened the door for colleges and universities to look to international students.

Could you provide a quick comment on that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

You have 30 seconds, please.

[Alex Usher]

It's particularly a problem in Ontario. Compared to the rest of the country, Ontario spends, per student, less than half of what the rest of the country pays for college students. That was what started the move to look for these alternative sources of funding, like international students. There were a lot of colleges that went far beyond that. They got cut by 25% and then grabbed another 400% or 500% with international student tuition.

Yes, that does have to be.... It's part of the equation, and—

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

Mr. Usher, I have to cut you off. I'm very sorry, but we're at the end of the extra 30 seconds. We've gone over.

When you respond next, you can continue with your response.

Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I thank the witnesses who are here today to take part in our study of this important motion.

I also want to thank my colleagues who voted in favour of the motion and decided to make it the first thing the committee will study this fall.

You're well aware that international students are of crucial importance to Quebec, especially to universities outside of major centres. Unfortunately, there are problems with IRCC's permit system. That's why I moved this motion. The goal is to identify problems, but the motion also indicates that we want to find solutions to improve the system.

My first questions are for Ms. Bezo.

Ms. Bezo, you represent Quebec universities outside of Montreal, such as the Université du Québec en Outaouais and the Université du Québec à Trois‑Rivières.

I imagine you're familiar with the process an international student has to go through to come study in Quebec.

Are you?

[Larissa Bezo]

I lost the audio connection. I did not hear the question. I apologize.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I expect the timekeeper will take that problem into account.

I'll repeat my question.

Ms. Bezo, I imagine you're familiar with the process an international student has to go through to come study in Quebec.

Are you?