Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on June 14th, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

I will open this meeting of the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development.

Committee members, you have the orders of the day. As you can see here, for the first hour, between 3:30 and 4:30, we have a witness, Mr. Peter Dinsdale, executive director of the National Association of Friendship Centres. Then, from 4:30 to 5:30, we will go in camera and we will be dealing with committee business, in particular the planning of future business.

I just want to make a statement that on behalf of the committee I did table the support of the United Nations resolution with regard to aboriginal people. I did that at the session today.

I want to mention that we had a bit of a problem at the last meeting. There were documents circulated that were in English only--in one official language. I want to remind all members that we need to have documents in both official languages before they are circulated. I just want to make sure that we follow that rule.

I want to thank Mr. Peter Dinsdale for appearing today. It was on short notice. We really do appreciate you moving your schedule to allow you to be here.

We do have the submission in both official languages for the committee members. Thank you.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Yes, Mr. Albrecht.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I understand that recently we've had short notice for the witnesses we've called. I understand the logistical problems that creates in terms of getting information and briefing notes to us. But I would ask that in the future, if it's possible, to try to have briefing notes to us prior to the day of the meeting. It makes it very difficult for us to be properly informed. If we could make a note of that, I'd appreciate it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Note taken, Mr. Albrecht. I think that's a reasonable request. Once we meet and fix our witness schedule, it will be a lot easier for us to make that available. Thank you for that.

Mr. Dinsdale, we'll commence with your presentation, and then, as I mentioned, we'll be asking questions for an hour of our committee time this afternoon.

Once again, thank you for appearing.

[Peter Dinsdale, Executive Director, National Association of Friendship Centres]

I'd like to thank the committee very much for the opportunity to come to speak with you today and share some of our perspectives on aboriginal education. The clerk informed me that you're focusing particularly on post-secondary education, and we'll try to guide our comments towards that outcome, but certainly we share a perspective that education includes a broader field for consideration.

I'd like to start with a very brief summary--I know I have around ten minutes to speak here--about who we are and about our structure.

Page 6 has a map, showing where the friendship centres are located across the country. Hopefully, there's one in each of your ridings: if not, let's talk afterwards, and we'll try to get one. The only province or territory we aren't currently involved in is P.E.I. Charlottetown in P.E.I. is doing a lot of work towards the development of a centre in that community.

Friendship centres are service delivery organizations in communities across Canada. There are currently 117 from coast to coast to coast. Our mandate is primarily to administer the aboriginal friendship centre program on behalf of the federal government, but in doing that we touch all of Canada's aboriginal peoples--first nation, Métis, and Inuit--irrespective of political or legal definitions, through really basic bread-and-butter services every day.

We are very much community-driven. We provide funding to local friendship centres and support to their boards. We establish administration standards for those friendship centres, in the level and type of administration they need to provide. We also provide some other programs on behalf of government partners.

With respect to our process, I'm from the National Association of Friendship Centres. We're really at the bottom of the pyramid, which includes--in the last year we collected full stats--757,000 client contacts across the country through 117 friendship centres. We have seven regional bodies, and we're the national body. We also have a national senate and a youth council to support our activities as well.

I won't spend too much time on the stats--I'm sure you know them better than I do--but according to the 2001 census, 71% of all aboriginal people live off of reserves, and 68% of that population live in urban areas. That's a fancy way of saying just about 50% of all aboriginal people live in urban areas.

We know from the same stats that the urban population is growing: in some cities it has quadrupled. In other areas it's going to continue to grow over the next 25 years. Fifty percent of the population is under the age of 25. And with your focus on education, of course you know that 50% of all aboriginal people do not graduate from high school.

So what in effect we have is a growing underclass in this country of young, urban, uneducated aboriginal people. Unless we do something this generation with the issue, it's only going to grow.

As I said, currently there are 117 friendship centres across the country. These community agencies and the program that funds them really are enablers for many other programs that we can provide on behalf of the federal government--we have some examples there for you. It's important to note that in addition to every dollar we receive in core funding, we receive on average approximately $9 from other government programs. So our program isn't funded solely through the aboriginal friendship centre program. We certainly do a lot of other things through other federal and various provincial and municipal programs.

Naturally, friendship centres offer that first point of contact, a welcoming environment, and access to a broader community. I won't get into the list of programs and services that friendship centres provide, but it's varied. We like to say we try to provide a cradle-to-grave kind of programming cycle, everything from prenatal to early learning and child care programming, to programming to young people in communities, for those who have dropped out of school, to programming for adults who run into difficulties in their lives, through various education programs, to drug and alcohol counselling, to homelessness programming outreach, to support for our seniors, all in a culturally appropriate manner.

Friendship centres started in the early 1950s as aboriginal people began to migrate into urban areas for a variety of reasons. There's a brief history there outlining our growth, and where we are today with the 117 centres across the country.

As you know, with respect to off-reserve education issues, half of our people are not graduating right now, for a variety of reasons. The reasons cited for non-completion of post-secondary studies for men were primarily financial, while those for women, most frequently cited of late, were related to family responsibilities. While some post-secondary outcomes show signs of improvement, the percentage of non-reserve aboriginal people with post-secondary education is significantly lower than the same for the total Canadian population.

Friendship centres are involved in education in a variety of formats. I briefly referred to the cradle-to-grave notion. We're involved in early childhood education through a variety of programs like aboriginal head start programs and community action plan for children programs. We're involved in various adult literacy and upgrading programs, and we provide scholarships.

At the National Association of Friendship Centres we named a scholarship after one of our senators, Delia Gray. Youth are involved in the friendship centre and some funding helps their post-secondary studies.

We have a number of alternative schools across the country; we have eight in Ontario right now and a couple of others sprinkled throughout the country. These are initiatives aimed at giving aboriginal people who have already dropped out of school an opportunity to get back into education and finish school. Some of the most interesting programs are not just in friendship centres. There are a couple of exciting schools in Winnipeg. In Toronto there's one involved with the friendship centre movement. There's a growing groundswell of on-the-ground community education programs and that needs to be supported.

We're involved in other types of programs related to education, like computer training and aboriginal language--too often when we talk about education we forget about our own cultures and our own communities. We're involved in a variety of cultural supports associated with that as well.

In general, urban aboriginal education programs have taken a very much first nations status Indian approach, much in keeping with the federal government's responsibilities. The current policy environment has very much focused on a distinction-based approach, most recently reflected in the Kelowna accords. During the negotiations for the Kelowna accords we were concerned about how the urban aboriginal issue was being dealt with in that context. The creation of first nation school boards, while important and supportive, isn't going to help a single aboriginal woman in downtown Winnipeg finish school or help her child get into an early learning program so ultimately that child can go to post-secondary education. So we were calling for an expansion within that context, within the targets, of how to reach that urban population through creative measures like alternative schools.

We believe a specific urban approach is required, while not shying away from previous commitments because we do believe those commitments under the Kelowna accord need to be met. And programs must help that mythical single aboriginal woman in a downtown community if they're to have impact.

As we mentioned, with respect to post-secondary education, it's one piece in a larger continuum that needs to be addressed. We have early learning programs so our young people have successful starts. We have K to 12 programming for those who are having problems in mainstream schools. We have alternative schools for those who have dropped out, so they will have other ways to get back into the public education system. We need literacy programs to help those adults who already have not made it and are looking for opportunities to get back into school.

If you look at early learning and child care, more than 112,000 children under the age of six are living off reserve, and 16% of six-year-old aboriginal children living off reserve had attended a pre-school program. That's certainly not the kind of access we need to make sure these kids are getting the start they need. According to the 2001 aboriginal peoples survey, 42% of six-year-old aboriginal children living off reserve had not attended pre-school at all.

We need an early learning and child care program that's based on successful community-based initiatives from every region of the country. We need to take an approach that ensures direct service delivery to urban aboriginal people--an approach that doesn't make them have to be a status Indian, belong to a certain Métis community, or come from certain regions of the country. We call that a status-blind approach. We need to target specific needs of aboriginal children living in communities as opposed to blanket programs across the country.

We're calling for various constituent early learning and child care programs offered in centres across Canada to be included in the national early learning and child care programming notions thought of in the previous government.

There are a variety of actions we can take for the K to 12 programs as well. It's clear we need better engagement with provinces and territories around this issue because the jurisdictional land mine that is an urban aboriginal person continues to pervade. But any serious examination of aboriginal education can include shirking of responsibility.

We need better and better-funded native alternative schools, again, partnerships with provincial programs and local school boards. We need strengthened relationships with first nations communities and organizations to make sure our efforts work together. Quite often we tend to be pitched against each other in the urban first nation reality and we need to make sure that we're working toward the same end.

With respect to post-secondary education, only 23% of aboriginal people aged 18 to 29 reported having completed post-secondary education, compared to 43% in the rest of Canada. That is probably best indicated in the age group of 30 to 34, where 10% of the aboriginal population was back in school full-time versus only 5% of the mainstream population. People are dropping out. The public school system is failing their kids. Once they try to work and succeed for a while, they find other avenues to get back into the school system. We need to find ways of catching them once they do drop out and to make sure they have opportunities to get back into school.

We have partnerships with groups like the Canadian Council of Learning, looking at the issue of high aboriginal youth dropout rates. We're partnering with them on a stay-in-school comic book. We're focusing on literacy programs and making sure kids understand the impacts of what happens when you drop out of school, and we are focusing on kids having opportunities to get reintegrated into community-based initiatives.

Moving forward, the National Association of Friendship Centres believes that we need to recognize the specific urban needs that exist; and policy approaches such as these must be taken into account when developing post-secondary education initiatives to reach non-status Indians and people with other aboriginal identities.

We obviously need a national early learning and child care program; we need to strengthen engagements with provinces and individual school boards; we need better supports and more native alternative schools across the country; we need to have strengthened relationships with first nations and their organizations in the delivery of education initiatives; and we need to have more inclusive scholarships that include all of Canada's aboriginal people.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Thank you for that presentation.

We're going to move on to questions now. Who would like to start?

Mr. Russell.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Peter Dinsdale, or Peter, I should call you, as we had the opportunity to meet early on to talk about the National Association of Friendship Centres' program. I'm glad to see that there's been some movement on that.

I also believe I heard you say that you would have liked to have seen the objectives of the Kelowna accord broadened or expanded upon. Instead, I guess what we have seen is the government take the Kelowna money and spend it on other priorities.

As well, with the early childhood and learning facet that you talked about, we should not directly focus on post-secondary education, but it has implications for post-secondary education. As you know, that's also been gutted by the Conservative government.

I also know that you guys do perform a very valuable service. Certainly I can speak from experience in having dealt with aboriginal groups and organizations for over 10 or 12 years, and also experience with the Labrador Friendship Centre, which does an enormous amount of work, not solely on its own, but in cooperation with a whole bunch of other organizations and agencies within Labrador.

I just have a couple of questions. How much does the friendship centre depend on other sources of funding, aside from its own core program, to continue its work—friendship centres generally—and what type of impact does that have on program delivery? What I'm getting at here is that if you're advocating having a greater role in terms of program delivery, or in terms of interventions that help people meet their educational needs, is there an underpinning there in the sense that you need to have more stability in terms of your core funding? I know that in Labrador, for instance, the friendship centre seems to depend on a whole range of programs just to keep itself functioning, in terms of its administration, its overhead and maintenance, and things of that nature.

We had the unfortunate incident not too long ago where the HIV/AIDS project for the friendship centre in Labrador was cancelled by the government through the Public Health Agency of Canada. I just want you to give us a sense of that.

As well, you talked a little bit about, I guess, the competition that's sometimes set up. Can you explain a little bit more about that, and probably how we can overcome those particular challenges?

[Peter Dinsdale]

Thank you very much for the question.

Local friendship centres across the country receive a total, including the allocation to run the national office, of $16,173,000 a year. That's the core funding. That's to keep the buildings open. If you do it on a full-time equivalent number, we're averaging around $28,000 per staff person in friendship centres across the country. That's the core funding. That money is meant to keep the buildings open and have an executive director, a bookkeeper, and a finance officer.

With respect to the long-term sustainability of friendship centres and is that what we need, I could talk an hour about that, but let me say quickly that in 1995, during the expenditure review process of that time, our program was cut by 25%. It has not been reinvested in since. That cut continues to have its impacts today in tightened administration. If you think gas prices are expensive today, try spending 1996 dollars on them, which is in effect what we're doing.

The minister has recently announced a four-year renewal and commitment to the friendship centre program, which we were very happy with. It gives us that breathing room and that stability to know that over the next four years we will continue to receive the same amount we received in 1996. The minister has also committed to a joint NAFC-Heritage Canada staff process reviewing our current funding levels, and the minister has asked us to bring back a plan on what the local friendship centres need.

So there is no question that we need more resources. We're making that case to government. We're encouraged by their support of that to date.

With respect to the issue of other funding partners, the friendship centre program isn't intended to be the sole funding source for those community agencies. It very much is an enabler. It's like giving you the gasoline for your engine to go and drive your car and do the things you need to do, and because of that investment that the Government of Canada makes in urban aboriginal people, we're able to go out and partner with provinces, territories, and municipalities, and with other federal departments to provide the programming.

It's unfortunate that programs get cut. They come and go, unfortunately. I think that's part of the challenge of urban aboriginal programming in general: there's a distinct lack of commitment to its ongoing resource needs.

On your last question, about division among the groups, we're trying not to get caught in that trap. There are definite political issues in play in representing first nations and aboriginal peoples, Métis, and Inuit across this country. We serve those people irrespective of the jurisdictional battles that go on every day across this country, and our commitment to serving people and communities won't falter.

We want to work with the groups where they're willing to work with us. We're proud of a recent protocol we signed with the Assembly of First Nations to do just that, and we're hopeful that we can be, if nothing else, a service delivery provider in communities and not get caught in those squabbles.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Thank you.

I'll share the rest of my time with Mr. Merasty.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Mr. Merasty, you have a minute and a half.

[Gary Merasty, Liberal, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thanks for your presentation.

I've had a long history with the friendship centres as well. My mother-in-law was executive director and national representative. My mother worked for twenty years in the friendship centres.

I know there was a national review done of the friendship centres. Notwithstanding the four-year renewal, has there been any feedback on that national review in which you had called for some improvements?

Secondly, most of the friendship centres service a population that's somewhat low income and needs some supports. Friendship centres have been invaluable in providing that support. Furthermore, they're not usually located in affluent neighbourhoods. They're closer to the population they serve.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Please be brief or you're not going to get an answer.

[Gary Merasty, Liberal, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

I'm just wrapping up with the question now.

The national day care early learning program was cut by this government. Headstart early learning is critical, as you mentioned. The tax credit proposal talked about by the government to build child care spaces, in my view, does not work in economically marginalized areas or on reserve, but friendship centres in these urban inner-city neighbourhoods for some.... Would you share that view?

[Peter Dinsdale]

I think I would dodge that question entirely by saying many of the people we serve in communities don't have an income to apply a tax credit against. That's the nature of the business that we do. We're a food bank to a lot, a shelter to a lot of people, and a front-line service delivery centre.

With respect to the national review, we've gone through a summit of evaluation on behalf of Heritage Canada. That is part of the Treasury Board requirements to renew the program. It found that we're an effective, cost-effective program that has no program duplication, remains in line with departmental objectives, and continues to provide a valued service for Canadians.

With respect to the funding review we've asked for, that is ongoing. The minister has committed to meeting with us again on June 29, and we're hopeful we'll receive a go-ahead to continue the work we're doing. We will naturally appreciate your support as we move forward with that program.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Thank you.

Mr. Lemay.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Chair, how long do he have?

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

You have seven minutes.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I only plan to use two. I will share the rest of my time with my colleague, Mr. Lévesque, who knows Aboriginal friendship centres well since there are three in his riding.

I would gladly welcome one your facilities in the Témiscamingue region where there is an Algonquin population. I was a legal aid lawyer for 25 years and I don't doubt that Aboriginal friendship centres play an important role in society.

There is something I would like to understand. In your presentation, you addressed education, and we will deal with post secondary education. Are Aboriginal friendship centres crossover points? Can friendship centres be a springboard for Aboriginal people who leave their reserve or their environment to further their education at a university or college in town? Can they go through an Aboriginal friendship centres to get a student loan, a scholarship or any other type of assistance? What is your role in that kind of scenario?

[Peter Dinsdale]

Thank you for the question.

I would say, first off, we do provide a go-between, in general, between the aboriginal community and the non-aboriginal community in many respects. With respect to education, a lot come in to attend education programs and get direct services from local centres. How that translates to a post-secondary reality is a little bit different. Let me say at the outset that as a student in Sudbury, Ontario, I went to the N'Swakamok Friendship Centre for services and cultural programs and those types of things. We provide other supports to students when they're going in.

As to the total amount of the bursaries that I'm able to provide, I get no funding from anywhere to have those bursaries; our youth fundraise all year, quite honestly, to give out those bursaries. We're trying to give $2,000 a year to two different people. So we simply don't have the funding right now--we have the network, but not the funding--to deliver bursaries in communities where we certainly could.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Monsieur Lévesque.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Mr. Dinsdale, thank you for coming. I'm happy to see you. There are three centres in my area, but perhaps I should keep that information to myself as they're very efficient and my colleague will probably want to have one transferred to his riding.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Indeed.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

I know that outside of welcoming Aboriginals who have just left their reserve, some centres occasionally accommodate people who have no place to go. You help families out when one of the parents, if not both, have gone back to school by providing child care services. Earlier, you also indicated that you had received government assistance in response to some of your demands and I certainly hope that you will obtain the rest of the funding you are seeking. How can you get additional assistance for the various Aboriginal friendship centres?

[Peter Dinsdale]

We receive $16 million directly through the aboriginal friendship centre program at the national level. We have some other government programs that we provide on behalf of the department and the federal government. But more importantly, what happens on ground is that funding will come from some of the housing projects through CMHC, direct delivery of programs, or through the National Secretariat on Homelessness. Val d'Or has a shelter that they've been able to provide through that program.

They have a variety of other partnerships with provincial housing programs, as well as municipal programs, where they have the kind of partnerships to provide them. So it's a varied funding level.

The important thing about friendship centres is that they are meant to adapt to the community they serve, and not be a one-national-size-fits-all approach. The local centres are autonomous boards of directors that are able to go out and meet the needs of the communities they serve.