Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Sept. 19th, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

I open this meeting of the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development this Tuesday, September 19, 2006.

I want to welcome all committee members back after the summer. I'm looking forward to working together in this fall session.

I also want to welcome our witnesses, and especially all the students in the gallery who have come today. I'm sure they'll find today's meeting informative and educational.

The orders of the day are that we will have presentations from two groups, for 10 minutes each, and then we'll have questions after that. After that our committee will spend a half hour talking about planning for future committee meetings.

The witnesses we have today are as follows. From Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated we have Natan Obed, director of the social and cultural development department; Laurie Pelly, legal counsel; and Joanasie Akumalik, director of government and public relations. Our second group is from the Nunavut Sivuniksavut Program, and we have Juanita Taylor, board of directors; Morley Hanson, coordinator; Murray Angus, instructor; and Jackie Price, instructor. We want to welcome you here.

I would ask that we start with the Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated presentation for 10 minutes. Thank you very much.

[Natan Obed, Director of Department of Social and Cultural Development, Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated]

[Witness speaks in Inuktitut]

Good morning. On behalf of Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated, I thank you, the chair, and the members of this committee for the invitation to present to you this morning.

Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated, or NTI, represents the interests of approximately 26,000 beneficiaries of the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement. It's with pleasure that we share our presentation with Nunavut Sivuniksavut, and I sincerely hope they will make the most of this opportunity to personally interact with Inuit students so often discussed only in per capita funding formulas or abstract statistics.

Since we have 30 recent Nunavut high school graduates with us today, I'll start with some perspective. In 2005, 113 Inuit graduated from grade 12 in Nunavut. If these 30 Inuit who are here today all graduated in 2005 they would represent 27% of the entire territorial graduation class. This is a territory that has one-fifth of Canada's land mass. This is a territory that has untold prospects in natural resource extraction and that has a huge future ahead of it and a huge role to play in the future of Canada.

Graduating from grade 12 in Nunavut is an exceptional achievement. Our 75% dropout rate is a full 50% higher than the Canadian national average. Again, in human terms, each one of these Inuit sitting before you graduated while three of their classmates failed or dropped out. This sobering reality brings us to the content of “The Nunavut Project”, the report tabled March 1, 2006 by conciliator Thomas Berger to the three parties of the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement: the federal government, the Government of Nunavut, and Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated.

“The Nunavut Project” is not an easy read, especially the lengthy discussions regarding the educational shortfalls of Canada's newest territory, such as the aforementioned dropout rate, low literacy levels, a lack of skilled trades people, and the disastrous results of trying to educate a population in its second language with borrowed curriculum. But in “The Nunavut Project” we also find hope through near- and long-term solutions that build on best practices and on social and cultural logic that has been ignored for the better part of 50 years. Having a culturally relevant K through 12 education system, supported by fully functioning early childhood development and by post-secondary programming that functions bilingually in Inuktitut and English, is a dream worth pursuing.

Nunavut Sivuniksavut needs to be expanded and adequately funded. Summer student and internship programs need to be expanded to expose as many young Inuit as possible to the professional work environment, to provide essential context, and to help mould career aspirations that provide the incentive to pursue education. Funding that provides for career development officers allows for community members to make better and more informed decisions about their future. A graduation diploma program for mature students would provide essential skills to the majority of students or citizens of Nunavut who have attained a grade nine education or less. Increased scholarship funding would allow more Inuit to pursue post-secondary degrees.

I've just run through the major recommendations and the near-term recommendations from the Berger report, all of which are key, NTI feels, to not only the successful education of the citizens of Nunavut, but also the success of the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement as a whole. “The Nunavut Project” recommendations are designed to create a healthy functioning territory without sacrificing Inuit society and culture to do so.

And now let's come back to this room for a second. Before you start adding up the dollars and delegating implementation of the recommendations to the territory--because these are educational issues--“The Nunavut Project” is not so much about territorial education as it is about the federal government's providing of funding to implement the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement. Educating Nunavummiut through a massive overhaul in the education system just happens to be the only logical way that Thomas Berger saw to proceed to implement the largest land claim agreement in Canada's history. But the Nunavut project is not the only project going on in Nunavut, and it is not the only idea that is happening. There are many initiatives in Nunavut being undertaken now that will attempt to solve the issues discussed in “The Nunavut Project”.

NTI and the GN are currently undertaking many initiatives that focus on improving educational outcomes in Nunavut. Three legislative acts are currently being developed. An education act, an official languages act, and an Inuktituk protection act will provide the framework for Inuit in Nunavut to live and learn in a way that respects, protects, and promotes our language and culture.

A Nunavut adult learning strategy will be tabled in the Nunavut legislature this fall. A cultural school initiative based loosely on the European folk school model, called Piqqusilirivvik Cultural School, is being developed to deliver curriculum in relation to Inuit traditions, values, and skills. A trades school is being built in Rankin Inlet.

In these initiatives in Nunavut, federal funds have been essential for delivering the success and the realization of these projects. Federal funding for the trades school and the Piqqusilirivvik initiative have been crucial in their evolution from proposals to realities.

Federal funding through the HRSDC aboriginal human resource development agreements have provided access to post-secondary opportunities for thousands of Inuit in Nunavut. Federal funding through Heritage Canada's urban multi-purpose youth centre initiative and aboriginal languages initiative have helped Inuit stay connected with their culture and language through language camps, curriculum development, and other Inuit-specific initiatives.

These are just a few examples of how the federal government plays a role in educating Inuit in Nunavut, but none of the federal funding allocated to Nunavut is ever consistent or safe. The cultural school initiative and the trades school are a result of one-time northern strategy funding.

The aboriginal human resource development strategy in its second phase is scheduled to end in 2009. Heritage Canada unilaterally slashed Inuit urban multi-purpose aboriginal youth centre funding by 30% in 2006 and 2007. And the aboriginal languages initiative is now three years overdue to be replaced by its successor, which is currently being called the first nations and Inuit language initiative. In short, federal programs supporting the formal, cultural, and linguistic development of Inuit in Nunavut are constantly in danger of being terminated, but they are always welcome and always appreciated by the recipients in Nunavut when funds are given.

In reviewing evidence from the standing committee's proceedings in the first session of the 39th Parliament, it seems much time was spent discussing the merits and validity of the Kelowna Accord. I will only briefly add to the discussion. NTI supports the committee's Standing Order 108(2), which recommends the implementation of the Kelowna Accord, and NTI is especially eager to see a national Inuit education resource and research centre developed to help support curriculum development in Nunavut and across Inuit Nunaat, the Inuit homeland in Canada.

NTI asks the standing committee to consider the following recommendations.

First, that you invite Judge Thomas Berger to provide evidence to the standing committee regarding the Nunavut project report. He is in a much better position to talk about his report than even I am, even though NTI can speak at length about its policy issues and why it supports the Nunavut project.

Second, that the committee table the entire Nunavut project in Parliament and also as a committee recommend that all recommendations identified in the Nunavut project be implemented.

Third, that the committee recommend a thorough review of all federal expenditures for aboriginal post-secondary education to ensure that Inuit receive a proportionate share of funding allocated for aboriginal students.

Too many times we hear of very low percentages of Inuit accessing federally funded aboriginal post-secondary programs. We are a small part of Canada's aboriginal population, but we are a deserving part of the aboriginal population in Canada. Funding that's allocated for all aboriginal people should be accessed by all aboriginal people, equally and effectively.

In conclusion, it will take an extraordinary effort to implement the Nunavut land claims agreement by all parties, but for Canada's sake, and for the sake of those sitting here today, we hope that extraordinary effort does not mean impossible effort.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Thank you, Mr. Obed.

We'll move on now to the Nunavut Sivuniksavut program.

Juanita Taylor, are you going to give the presentation?

[Juanita Taylor, Board of Directors, Nunavut Sivuniksavut Program]

Good morning. My name is Juanita Taylor. I'm an executive member of the board for the Nunavut Sivuniksavut program. I'm also an alumni of the program, having graduated back in 1997.

Since graduating, I have been employed in various Inuit organizations, including Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated, whom you've just heard from. There I was manager of the enrolment department, overseeing the list of beneficiaries. Most recently I was assistant director with the implementation department.

On behalf of the students, the board, and the staff of the Nunavut Sivuniksavut program, I'd like to thank you for this opportunity to speak with you today. I'd also like to thank our member of Parliament, Nancy Karetak-Lindell, for her support in arranging our appearance.

Nunavut Sivuniksavut means “Our land is our future”. It was started in 1985 to give Inuit youth a way to learn about land claims so that they would be available to help with its implementation when the time came. It has since evolved into a more general transition-year program for Inuit youth from Nunavut, helping them bridge the gap between high school and either college or university or the workforce. It's affiliated with Algonquin College here in Ottawa, and its courses are all accredited by Algonquin.

In 1999 Nunavut Sivuniksavut became incorporated as a non-profit charitable organization. It's governed by a board of nine directors, eight of whom are Inuit and eight of whom reside in Nunavut.

The NS program provides Inuit youth from Nunavut with a unique combination of life experience and academic and skills training, all centred around the study of their own history, culture, politics, and the land claims agreement. This is not something that young people can find in Nunavut.

We currently accept 22 students into our first year, although three times that many apply to get in. We also accept up to 10 students in the second year, which is devoted more specifically to preparing for university. Students in the first year take courses in Inuit history, Inuit organizations, Inuit politics, and an entire course on the Nunavut land claims agreement. In addition, they develop their academic and workplace-related skills in courses such as Inuktitut, English, and computers.

Students in the second year take courses that deepen their knowledge of Inuit issues in Canada and the circumpolar world. Some of these courses are university-level, taken at the University of Ottawa, Carleton University, and the University of the Arctic. During their eight months in Ottawa, students also acquire invaluable life experiences by living on their own for the first time, and by learning more about southern Canada.

When students graduate, they leave with the skills and the confidence they need to be able to live anywhere else in order to pursue work or further post-secondary opportunities. With the exception of those who come back south to pursue further post-secondary education, virtually all of our students return to Nunavut immediately after graduating, and pursue careers. They're all contributing positively to Nunavut's development.

I'll pass it on to Morley.

[Morley Hanson, Coordinator, Nunavut Sivuniksavut Program]

I'd like to tell you about some of the results of the program.

One, in perspective, Nunavut Sivuniksavut is the only program of its kind, not only in Nunavut but in Canada. There is no other program like it. To date, about 270 young people have benefited from the experience. It's a small program with a long history. It has remained quite small, but there are 270 young people out there now, slowing getting involved in Nunavut society.

In 2005 we did a survey of 180 of those graduates. We contacted them to do a survey of what their employment and academic history had been since they left the program. Of those 180 we contacted, 40% were working within government, either federal, territorial or municipal; 19% were working in the private sector; 15% were furthering their studies in post-secondary education; and another 19% were working for Inuit organizations. Of those 180, only four were unemployed.

Those are some workforce statistics on young people's participation once they've taken the program. But it's important to look at what's behind that. Why is it that they are so involved and so active in the workforce once they leave? It has to do with the impact of the program on individuals.

You can measure the success of a program in many ways. One is through statistics that come from workforce activity. The other, though, is more qualitative--the impact on young people themselves, the individuals.

Students come away with a knowledge of their place in Canada. They've learned their story, they've learned their history. They've learned what their ancestors, in generations before them, have gone through to get to the point where they are today, and they understand why things are they way they are today. They understand where the cultural, social, and economic reality of Nunavut has come from, and all importantly, the political reality. So they have knowledge of that. They've developed some unique academic and independent living skills, which gives them some confidence to move further.

But perhaps most importantly, they've developed some strong positive attitudes about themselves as Inuit, and this is what we've found to be the most important impact of the program. Students move away from the program with increased pride in who they are, increased respect for their culture, their society, and their people. They develop confidence in themselves. They're enthusiastic and they're strongly committed to the future of Nunavut and to being involved in it.

It's these understandings and attitudes that lead them to be so active in the workforce.

With these sorts of results, the program has garnered a high degree of support within Nunavut society. It's virtually unknown in the south, but within Nunavut society it's becoming more and more known. This support is measured in various ways.

One is among parents. Some families have encouraged two or three of their children to come to NS. We have teachers who are steering graduates in some communities to come to the NS program, and of course the graduates themselves are going home and telling other young people, their peers, that this is an experience that's worthwhile.

Political leaders, employers, and government officials have noted the positive qualities of graduates, and this has increased their commitment to the program. In fact, it's only through the support of people in Nunavut, political leaders and government officials, that the program still exists today.

Nunavut Sivuniksavut is not an institution with core funding, it's not an institution that can be taken for granted. There is only one organization that provides annual funding, and that annual funding is about 10%. All other funds must be sought out each and every year, which you can appreciate brings a certain amount of complication to planning for the future, for meeting any growing needs, and for developing and improving the program. Of the funds that come to the organization, 70% are through Nunavut territorial organizations—Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated and the training arms of the three regional Inuit associations. Up to 20% of the program's funding each year may come from Indian and Northern Affairs Canada through the university and college entrance program funding that is allocated to Nunavut.

That's some background on the results and the position of the program financially. Although it has existed for 22 years, it's still in a very precarious position. Now we're looking to the future and trying to decide where to go from here.

[Juanita Taylor]

Needless to say, this year the search for funding is taking a lot of the staff's time and energy, and you can appreciate the level of frustration they go through, too, during peaks of the year. It makes it difficult to plan for long-term training programs and improvements and to address the growing demands of the program, because as Morley mentioned earlier, it's a very popular program with the Inuit youth. More and more students are applying to take this program, which is offered only down here in Ottawa. It's not offered in Nunavut to the extent that it's offered here, so it's very limited. As its popularity is growing year by year, there's more need for corporate and stable funding, and this need is being addressed now. We're looking for ways of doing that.

While there is currently a strong level of support from funders, several have indicated to us that they're reaching the limits of what they are able to contribute. In essence, the program has reached a plateau in what it's able to deliver. If NS is to continue to make a contribution to Inuit youth and to the development of Inuit society, stable, long-term funding needs to be found.

This predicament was highlighted within the recent report by Mr. Thomas Berger regarding the implementation of the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement. In his assessment of the role of education in Nunavut and the current state of affairs regarding education, Mr. Berger highlighted Nunavut Sivuniksavut as a unique success story with a vital role to play. I'd like to cite some of Mr. Berger's comments regarding Nunavut Sivuniksavut.

He says,

For me, the spirit of Nunavut--and its future--is exemplified by the students and graduates of the Nunavut Sivuniksavut program. There, in an unremarkable building in Ottawa's Byward Market district...the graduates of NS have for 20 years been going on to become leaders in business, government, education, and the arts. On a shoestring budget, thousands of kilometers from their home communities, they support one another, and they show us what can be done.

In Mr. Berger's report, he lists a number of short-term and long-term recommendations. In the short term it is recommended that Nunavut Sivuniksavut be given core funding to continue its curriculum and to expand the program, which is greatly needed. We are repeating that recommendation to you, the standing committee, this morning.

Did you want to close?

[Morley Hanson]

Okay.

If we had one recommendation to make to the committee, we would appreciate that the program be viewed in accordance with Thomas Berger's report and that the recommendations put forth by Mr. Berger be acted upon. That report and the recommendations it contains say it all for the program.

In closing, then, we'd like to extend a formal invitation to any of you to come down and actually visit the institution, the school. It's only a 10-minute walk from here. You're welcome at any time, and you can come in and give a presentation on your role to the students. You could talk with the students and learn more about Nunavut, about Inuit society, and about the challenges of post-secondary education. If you come at the right time of day, you might even get some tuktu and muktuk.

Thank you.

[Juanita Taylor]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Thank you for the presentation and for the invitation to visit the school.

We're going to start our question time now, and for the committee members, it's going to be the same order.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Ms. Karetak-Lindell will lead off.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Madam Karetak-Lindell, go ahead, please.

[Nancy Karetak-Lindell, Liberal, Nunavut, NU]

Thank you.

[Member speaks in Inuktitut]

Thank you very much for coming. I welcome all the students here. I think it's a great way to start our fall session, going right into hearing from the people who are most affected by our lack of educational support for Nunavut.

I very much welcomed the report when it came out, because I think it solidified what all of us from different sectors have been saying, that we need to do something radically different. We have to acknowledge that what we have done for the last 40 or 50 years has not produced the numbers that we think we should be seeing from our young people, so they reach the right levels of education that the rest of Canada sees. It's always so hard to separate one from another--our land claims agreement, our language and culture protection, seeing education opportunities at the same level as what other students in Canada have. So I really would like to see this implemented just as much as you would.

Going back to questions, I have a very simple question. If you were able to get the funding that is recommended in the report and get base funding, what would you do more than what you are doing now on a shoestring budget? Again, I have to say that this program, for the benefit of listeners and our committee members, has done more for educating young people in Nunavut with very little money. Imagine what they could do if they had base funding.

My question is very simple: what would you see? Would it be more within Ottawa? Would you see other centres in the rest of Canada, more pan-Canadian? Would you see something in Nunavut that bridges to this? What would be your vision of NS with that core funding, more than what you are doing now?

Thank you.

[Morley Hanson]

As for a vision for the future, it takes a critical mass of young people to develop the idea that going on to university and college is a possibility, for young people who are coming up through the public high school system in Nunavut to realize that there are other young people progressing, and that this becomes a natural path to take. Right now it's not a natural path. As Natan said, the young people here are exceptional within their schools back home.

To develop that critical mass, Juanita mentioned earlier in her presentation that three times as many students apply for the program as we are able to accept. So in the immediate term, we would expand the program and double the first-year intake. That would then provide a greater number of students who would be seeking further education. The second-year program would increase. So rather than the 29 students we have today plus the seven or eight students who are attending post-secondary and count as former graduates, we could see eventually 50 or 60 young people down here. That would develop some momentum and some ideas for young people coming up through the system.

That would be an immediate step, to expand what we're doing right now. It would take some preparation and some time to develop materials and develop structures. This is not something you can just go and hire somebody from a teachers' college for.

Going beyond that, there is significant interest in other Inuit regions among young people for a program like Nunavut Sivuniksavut. Although we don't have specific plans for where that might go, we could easily see the program bringing in young people from Nunavik, from Labrador, and even from the Inuvialuit regions. But those are more long term.

We could also see developing partnerships with institutions in the north where, perhaps through distance education and alternative delivery methods, students who do not choose to travel south would still have access to the material. We have already developed materials and shared them with Arctic College for specific programs they offer from time to time. We would be able to do more of that, so we would become more of an education and training centre. Ottawa has become a logical place for that to happen. The transportation links are very good, and as you said, as more students come here, they attract more, and it simply snowballs from that.

That's what our plan would be.

[Nancy Karetak-Lindell, Liberal, Nunavut, NU]

Thank you.

I'm very struck by what you said. For me, it's something that I hear all the time, but I think it would be good to make sure that everyone here understands that it is not a normal course for our students to think post-secondary, especially university. Down south, when people enter high school they think about what university they want to go to, because that's the average talk around the other students, or their parents are alumni of Queen's University, or whatever. The conversation starts from the time children are born. There's an education fund for children so that they can go to university. It's a normal thought process that starts when a child is entering this world. With education funds and throughout high school, people are thinking about and absorbing the thought of going to university.

We just don't have that. Perhaps that's something the NTI could also comment on. My colleagues will vouch for me that when I talk about what Nunavut needs, it's the basics. We're not right at a level playing field yet. I think part of our barrier is that the thought process is not quite there in terms of thinking of a long-term education plan for our children. I know that's changing, but very slowly.

Maybe NTI can add to that, on why that is such a challenge for us too.

[Natan Obed]

NTI recently co-chaired development of the Nunavut adult learning strategy, which will be tabled this fall, as I previously mentioned. As you read through the document, one thing strikes you: when you think of adult learning, often you think of post-secondary--maybe trades training, or maybe college, or maybe even four-year university--but in Nunavut, we're going to spend the first five years of the strategy ensuring that the citizens of our territory get basic literacy skills. This will be basic upgrading so that more than 50% of our population can have a grade 10 or grade 11 education or the equivalency of that, so that the majority of our population can become literate.

That's why, when we were discussing what to present here for you in terms of your request on post-secondary, we decided it must go hand in hand with the reality of the situation that Nunavut is in right now. The way we have chosen to lobby is to not leave behind those people who have not graduated, to ensure that the majority of the population can function within Canadian society better than they do today.

That's the main focus of the first five years of our adult learning strategy.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Thank you.

We move on now to the Bloc, with Mr. Lemay, please.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you for joining us today. Your remarks were extremely interesting.

I'll give you some time to adjust to the interpretation. I understood your remarks in English, but I'm sure it's difficult for you to understand my French.

I'm impressed and disappointed at the same time. I'm impressed by the work your two agencies are doing. My colleague to my left, Yvon Lévesque, represents all of northern Quebec. He may have some questions for you later.

As for being disappointed, I have a relatively simple question for you. Supposing a member of your community manages to complete his secondary studies -- something that is not always a given -- and wishes to pursue some post-secondary studies -- we are discussing post-secondary education, after all -- and attend university. What would this decision involve? Would that individual have to leave the community? If that person wished to study medicine in order to help his people, would he be forced to spend five, six, seven, eight or ten years away from home, at the risk of never returning?

In an ideal world, could we possibly go one step further and establish, or help to establish, an Inuit university so that your people can remain in their community or could we provide an incentive of some kind for them to return? I don't know if I'm making myself clear. I hope I haven't gone on too long and that you've managed to get the gist of my question.

[Natan Obed]

Thank you for your question.

Nunavut is home to one post-secondary institution, and that's Nunavut Arctic College. It has a couple of main branches, but there also are programs delivered across a number of communities in Nunavut. There are some great successes at Nunavut Arctic College. The Nunavut teacher education program provides some much-needed help to Inuit teachers in Nunavut schools. There was recently a program with McGill University, the Akitsiraq law program, that was the first of its kind in Nunavut. We hope that it will be a benchmark for post-secondary education delivered within the territory.

Unfortunately, the costs associated with running a university, along with the lack of human resources and physical resources it would take to operate such a facility in Nunavut, have led us to pursue different paths at present. That isn't to say that in the long term we wouldn't like to have a four-year university program delivered in Nunavut, but right now we're pursuing other things.

For the first time ever, there will be a trades school based in Nunavut. For the first time ever, Inuit in Nunavut will not have to leave their territory to become journeypeople, to become apprentices. That is a huge step forward for us.

So we are taking steps, but a four-year university in Nunavut is not one that we feel we'd like to pursue at the moment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Thank you.

Go ahead, please, Mr. Lévesque.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

In Nunavik, which is very close to where you live, to pursue post-secondary studies, a person must first graduate from secondary school. Before that can happen, children need to attend primary schools. Are there enough adequate primary schools to accommodate the student population? Do enough children attend primary school and go on to high school?

After high school, there are post-secondary studies and university as options. At present, you have agreements in place with Algonquin College. Students seem to benefit from this institution's programming. With additional funding, could Algonquin College offer courses in Nunavut or in neighbouring communities? Students would then be able to remain with their families while attending classes. This arrangement would probably be an incentive to them to go further in life.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Mr. Lévesque, could you give Mr. Obed a chance to answer this, because you're running out of time.

Mr. Obed, go ahead, please.

[Natan Obed]

I'd like to defer and ask if there is somebody who can speak more on a first-person level to the question.

[Morley Hanson]

This is highly irregular, but we have another staff person from NS here who is a former primary school principal, and he could certainly answer the first part of your question.

With regard to the second part of the question, whether Algonquin College could deliver courses, there already is an Arctic College that has expertise and could develop more expertise and deliver programs in many communities, which it does in a decentralized fashion, but there is also the question of numbers. You have only a certain number of students available for all of the programs that you might want to create, so if there were people who aspired to, say, professional activities, there would be no way a program could be started in Nunavut, unless it was specifically for a short period of time, such as that offered through the Akitsiraq Law School, or the nursing program that has been developed. But we're still talking about numbers of people available to take the programs. That's why initiatives in education are so important, both in the primary system and in the secondary system.

Could I ask somebody else to answer the first part of the question?

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Could our witness identify himself so that we can have that on record, please?

[David Serkoak, Instructor, Nunavut Sivuniksavut Program]

If you don't mind, could you repeat the question please?