Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Sept. 19th, 2006

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank all of you for coming out this morning. I really appreciate your people and your land. It's a beautiful territory. I've only been there once, but I very much enjoyed it while I was there.

I have to definitely pay tribute to the work of Nunavut Sivuniksavut. I think I said that okay. How an organization like yours works without funding and without really knowing where your next dollar is coming from takes a lot of entrepreneurial spirit and a lot of energy and innovative thinking. It's a good thing; it's a really good thing, because you clearly are passionate about the work you're doing and you're not going to let anything get in your way in order to achieve your goals. I personally am very impressed by that. So I just wanted to pass that along.

Perhaps this is for both organizations. I wanted to talk a bit about the rate of return you're seeing to Nunavut, in terms of people who are educated in the south. Do you have any tracking of the rate of return to jobs in the north?

[Morley Hanson]

It's virtually 100%. People are not interested in relocating to the south, to live here, with the exception of students who stay to go on to other post-secondary programs. And this also refers to a question that Mr. Lemay asked about keeping students in Nunavut. If they come south to study, even if they're here four or five years, they still virtually all end up going back home. There's no problem with retaining people in the territory. That's their home and that's where they want to be.

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

That's incredible.

Do you have any tracking on the vocations that people are seeking or primarily entering into?

[Morley Hanson]

Of the survey I quoted earlier of the 180 students that we tracked, we do have specific records on each of them. I only summarized the statistics in terms of government, private sector, Inuit organizations, or studying, but we have detailed tracking on each one of them.

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

Go ahead, Mr. Obed.

[Natan Obed]

Yes, I would like to add to the discussion.

At the college and university level, the Government of Nunavut is so desperate for Inuit staff that they'll take somebody who's been in university for a semester or a year. The Government of Nunavut has an obligation under the land claims agreement to be a representative workforce: right now that means 85% Inuit, and they're failing that by a good 40%.

We're not blaming them for that discrepancy, but the reality is that beneficiaries who have any sort of post-secondary school experience are invaluable commodities to the government and to the communities in which they should be. The question moving forward will be how you balance that insatiable need for Nunavut beneficiaries to be working within government and working within other occupations in Nunavut, because our whole land claim is structured around a representative workforce, not only in government but also in terms of economic opportunities, business development, and all of these other areas.

Being a beneficiary of the land claim gives weight to someone in Nunavut as nothing else can. Weighing that insatiable need for beneficiaries to be producing immediately against the need for a student to get a solid educational foundation and then to return and be even more of an asset to the territory is something that is going to be a reality in the future, and is a reality now.

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

In terms of that insatiable need, you spoke about people graduating from grade 12 as an exceptional experience. Part of what we as a committee are doing right now is studying post-secondary education. I think, from some of your comments, you would suggest, at least as it applies to your people, that you have a lot of interest in seeing the high school and even primary levels being studied more, or perhaps stimulated through the plans that you have.

In terms of your overall sentiment, is that an accurate reflection?

[Natan Obed]

We don't want to diminish the importance of post-secondary education for Inuit of Nunavut, but we're at a transformative time: there is the development of a new territorial government, the acclamation to a different society and a different governance structure, and the unprecedented influx of southern-based media into a northern environment.

So we'd love for the committee to not diminish the importance of post-secondary education, but we'd also like to highlight the very real problems that we have in maintenance of Inuktitut, for one.

There was some discussion a little bit earlier about how students flow through the educational system, K through 12. Currently most Inuit in Nunavut start off learning in Inuktitut, and then in grade 4 there is a fundamental shift to English. Then in grade 10 there's a fundamental shift from the territorial curriculum to the Alberta curriculum, with departmental exams counting for as much as 50% of the entire school year.

So we have an education system that doesn't make up its mind as to what's most important for the student, and the result of that is that students don't feel proficient in any of those different levels that they go through. By the time they reach grade 10 they don't have the foundational Inuktitut skills to be able to function in Inuktitut. They don't have the foundational English skills because it's their second language and they've only been learning it for a few years. And then they're immersed in a curriculum that's based on Alberta, southern Canada, with questions talking about grain silos, and cattle, and things that have no relevance to Inuit in Nunavut.

So you see how it is of fundamental importance to NTI that this sort of problem be corrected as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Thank you. That was a good answer.

We'll move on to the Liberal side now.

Mr. Merasty, go ahead, please.

[Gary Merasty, Liberal, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

First of all, I want to welcome all the students who are here, and of course our witnesses. I think it's great to have you come down here.

I am a first nations person who has spent a lot of years in education and investing in trying to do the best for our communities and really working to ensure that our youth graduate and find that success, so this issue is very near and dear to my heart. I've read a lot of national reports on post-secondary, elementary, and secondary education. From what I've read and from what I hear you saying, it's clear that we need fiscal stability and an increase in funding because our population is increasing but the funding isn't, and the gap is growing every year. This issue needs to be addressed.

We have Indian Affairs, Heritage, HRSD, and the territorial government all funding, but do they talk, and is there any coordination among them? We seem to be hearing that there usually isn't any communication between federal departments, and so that needs to be improved so that the educational opportunities are actually better coordinated to meet the needs of our communities.

Post-secondary institutions need to cooperate to establish training centres in the north. Trades schools and universities need to cooperate, to get under one roof, and get out into the communities and onto the doorsteps in the communities to give our people access to these institutions. Those types of things are what I hear consistently.

One of the issues for me is that the government is currently talking about sovereignty in the Arctic and investing in a military and naval presence in the northwest passage. To me, the best way to establish sovereignty is to invest in the education of the Inuit people in the north in an unprecedented manner, in a way it has never been done before, perhaps in the way that Kelowna talked about it, as you spoke of. Would you agree with that statement?

I'm going to share my time with Todd.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

You're the most generous man I know.

[Natan Obed]

I'm so happy you've brought that up.

Sovereignty in the Arctic has been a major platform for the Conservative government. In the recent speech that the Prime Minister made in Iqaluit, not once did he mention Inuit; not once did he mention the strong role that Inuit have played in cementing Canada's sovereignty in the Arctic, and the potential role that Inuit can play on a global scale in linking the Canadian Arctic with Canada.

Inuit are Canadians. We embrace Canada. Look at Nunavut; it's a public government that's run through a land claims agreement. For Canada to then not talk about the importance of investing in its people in an area it wants to ensure it has jurisdiction over doesn't make much sense to us.

I probably would not like to comment on increased patrols in the Arctic--

[Gary Merasty, Liberal, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Feel free to comment on it.

[Natan Obed]

The investment in the people of the Arctic is in the end going to determine whether or not the Inuit are onside with Canada about this issue or the Inuit have a different understanding of how they fit into Canada and into Canada's sovereignty.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Mr. Russell, go ahead, please.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Thank you very much.

I'm Todd Russell from Labrador.

Natan, Nancy was telling me you have a Labrador connection, and I'll find out about that later. I'm sure we probably know some people mutually.

I want to welcome you all here. It's a distinct pleasure especially to see--without prejudice to the older faces--so many young faces here in this room and around the witness table.

I want to comment on a couple of things--for one, on the Arctic sovereignty. It is an extraordinary statement that the people who live there wouldn't be a part of establishing Canada's jurisdiction or sovereignty in the Arctic. If the Inuit people don't know the land, sure as hell the people in the south don't. I can guarantee you that.

I want to ask a couple of questions, because I've read over the Berger report, I've heard your wonderful testimony today, and the depth and breadth of this issue is something that we'll have to wrestle with as a committee. It's not a linear thing as such for which one intervention will make the difference.

What I'm reading in the Berger report--

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

The five minutes is up, but I'm going to let you ask your question.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

It is a huge issue, but two things come up. One is the full implementation of the land claims agreement and Kelowna, which I see as supplementing--not taking away from--or complementing it in certain ways. How far would these two initiatives or these two directions go if we fully implemented the land claims agreement, if we had Kelowna fully funded and implemented? How far would they go in addressing the needs in the Berger report or the needs that NTI or the Nunavut government in general has addressed or is trying to address?

I would just like to hear one thing--

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Let's get that question answered, and then we can give equal opportunity to all the representatives here.

Mr. Obed, go ahead, please.

[Natan Obed]

Simply put, the Berger report was necessary only because the three parties could not come to an agreement on the second phase of implementation and contract negotiations, and Berger thought that the most pressing issue for the implementation of the land claims agreement was the educational issues of the beneficiaries of the agreement. So we feel that the implementation of the agreement and what is in Berger are one and the same. Berger did an excellent job of articulating what is needed on the human resources side to ensure that the land claims agreement can live up to its full potential.

On the Kelowna side, NTI invested a lot of time and energy in attending the round tables, in attending the meetings that led up to the November 24 and 25, 2005, meeting, and we fully support the outcomes of that meeting. We think it would go a long way towards improving the lives of Inuit and Nunavut.

I'll leave it at that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Thank you.

We'll move on to the Bloc now.

Mr. Lemay, go ahead, please.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Let's move on to a more serious topic. I'm not implying, however, that what we've been discussing isn't serious, but I do need to understand something.

You said something rather important, Mr. Obed, namely that the children in your community attend classes given in both English and in Inuktitut. However, they do not have the tools to make their way in life and to pursue a given career, even after they complete high school.

I have two questions for you. Firstly, do you know what has become of the Berger Report tabled on March 1, 2006?

Secondly, what kind of improved program would you like to see in place, and in which language should classes between grades five and twelve, as well as any complementary courses, be taught?

As we know, some of your communities are also established in northern Europe. Are there any established models there that we could adapt to communities here in Canada?

[Joanasie Akumalik, Director, Government & Public Relations, Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

First of all, I'd like to thank the people, especially the committee members, for coming here to listen to us. This is very important for us in the north, in Nunavut especially. You have a lot of good questions, and I also encourage you to call our office, because I'm based here in Ottawa. If you need more information, give us a call.

In terms of Inuktitut usage in the schools, I'll give you an example from the community I'm from. I'm from a small community of 700 to 800 people in Arctic Bay. The students there start school at kindergarten. At that level and up to grade 3 they're taught in Inuktitut only. In grade 4 they switch to English. Can you imagine switching yourself into some language that you don't understand?

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Why?

[Joanasie Akumalik]

It's the system we have up there.

A good example is my two boys. They had a hard time. In Iqaluit, which is a community of 6,000 people, the education system is a little better than that in Arctic Bay, where I'm from. They pick up English pretty well out on the street, but still they struggle. Getting into grade 4 was tough for them because their teacher only taught in English, which they don't understand. So they had a hard time, and I think that encourages them not to go to school in the morning.

Some of the job opportunities that are advertised in the north require Inuktitut and English; therefore we also need Inuktitut in our qualifications. I know some people in my age group don't have Inuktitut, or they can't write it. They can speak it, but they can't write it. So a program such as Nunavut Sivuniksavut is really good. It's an ideal program.

When I was in Arctic Bay looking after a hunter and trapper organization, the first people who were hired in my community were the previous students from NS, because they have the skills and the knowledge of the European stuff.

What kind of curriculum do we want? I realize that GN is revamping their education act, but there has been some talk about other countries such as Greenland, where they have a folk school, where everybody is taught in their language. I understand they learn several languages at one time. With the model case, I am not sure yet, but I think something like the NS program would be a good model, with an emphasis on Inuktitut and on life skills, as well as going into colleges such as Algonquin, or Carleton or other universities.

I was educated before the NS program was created, so within my time I went to a school in Winnipeg, to Red River College, to take trades training. At that time the only route I could take to get into higher education or post-secondary was through the Arctic College, which was an adult learning centre way back then. If the Arctic College can accept a model where they can develop a curriculum, that would be ideal.