Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Sept. 28th, 2006

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Mr. Chair, I think we owe, at the very least, another ten minutes, because we were quite late starting. So I would appreciate some more time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Okay. We'll go a second round here, starting with the Liberal side. Who is going to speak?

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Dr. Bennett has a brief question, and then I'll follow up, if time allows.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Certainly.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Keith, are there situations where a student has graduated from post-secondary education and he's not going to university because of funding? I think we have an obligation, as a government, to make sure that never happens, that somebody--

[Keith Frame]

Do you mean somebody from grade 12?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Yes, from grade 12. Somebody has all the qualifications to get to university but is sitting at home because of some financial problem within the band in terms of allocating money or not having the budget to be able to send that qualified student to post-secondary education.

[Keith Frame]

Yes.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

And what would you recommend we do about it?

[Keith Frame]

If I could have a magic wand, I would say I'd like them to go to school. I'd like to take a look at what are the factors that enable us to get a young adult to school.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Don't we have an obligation to make post-secondary education available to anybody who qualifies for it?

[Keith Frame]

My obligation is to encourage and support them as much as I can.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

We, as the Government of Canada, have the responsibility to make sure they get there, don't we?

[Keith Frame]

I talk to my students and I talk to my chiefs and councils. My understanding is that education is a lifelong process, and that they get their funding based on treaty agreements. So that's what we talk about in our schools. Should they get it? I've seen the wind taken out of so many sails when a kid who was excited last year comes to me and says, “I got through the school, and I'm done”. A lot of factors go into getting into grade 12 in some of our communities. To go that far is pretty tough. I've been working with first nations students for over twenty years. It's tough the first couple of times you see it, but what's even tougher is that you develop a thick skin. Sometimes when I leave a community that I fly into, I think about talking with that tough skin to five or six kids. I've had a heck of a lot of long plane rides.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you for coming. I appreciate your being here. I've heard much about the work you've been doing.

What is your primary wish of us in accommodating your students better? Is it increased funding for tuition, bridging programs, housing? What can we do as a committee, as a government, to ensure that more of your students have the opportunities they need and deserve?

[Keith Frame]

My wish from the grand council would be to take a look at the recommendations we made in our documents and in the documents you'll see tomorrow, and to listen to the recommendations of my colleagues in first nations education. There are many good recommendations, and many good ideas to address the situation. My wish: take a look at them and act upon them, please.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Let me ask you again—and I am pushing you a little bit—if you were to walk out of the room and we were able to say that we could do X or Y immediately, what would be your priority?

[Keith Frame]

It would be the funding for students to go to school. Remove the funding cap that's coming on twenty years old. Take a look at bridging programs, so that students are able to get from their communities, their close-knit families, their schools, to post-secondary. Take a look at what's taking place in K to 12 schools and strengthen them. Make it easier to work with post-secondary institutions. Find innovative ways to have students stay in school. Ask industry and organizations for ideas. Learn from what we're doing with our youth apprenticeship program, where we have counselling at the junior high, high school, and even the university level.

One thing I would do? There would be many things. But if I had to pick one, it would be to take a look at all those recommendations and find ways to make them happen.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Mr. Blaney.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I thank you for coming to meet with us. It is a good thing to be able to speak with someone working on the ground. I worked for Indian Affairs, but in the infrastructure field.

There was something that I found surprising in your presentation. You have explained that young people were dropping out because they had difficulty making the transition between their studies and a career or simply finding a job. It is then a question of motivation issue. You have raised a good point. One of the hurdles the students are faced with is that there are no economic opportunities for them because they are unable to find a job after their graduation.

Is culture well integrated in your curriculum? There are several languages spoken in your community: Dakota, Dene and Cree. Is culture well integrated in your curriculum from K to 12?

Then, to get back to earlier comments by Ms. Neville, how do you see the role of the federal government? Do you think that some kind of partnership between the provinces, the federal government and First Nations might improve the graduation rates?

[Keith Frame]

Thank you.

I'm just trying to write everything down so that I don't miss anything.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Yes.

[Keith Frame]

You made mention of studies and careers and sometimes students not completing. Again, I want to make it very clear when I speak with you folks this morning that I want to speak on behalf of our world, that of the grand council. I can't speak for everybody, but I'm thinking that they're going through the same things we are. When you talk about students who do get to post-secondary and maybe not finish, I don't think it's just motivation. I can't see too many of our students who do get past that hurdle of funding and finding that apartment and get going in school saying, “Well, I don't think I really want to be here.” Most of them are pretty excited that they've got to that position. I think that's when those other factors start to come into play--the housing and the costs of living. Those are the factors that count.

You made mention of culture and family. Counselling for students at post-secondary, grade 12, and grade 11 is a very big factor in success. There's not a whole lot of it taking place. Right now—and I'm going off the top of my head—roughly 30% of our high schools in Canada don't get specific funding for a guidance counsellor. And if they have one in their school, they have to find somewhere in the budget that they can get money for that person.

At the post-secondary level, my understanding is that there's not a whole lot of counselling taking place. So for some of our students to come from small communities--away from their family and their culture and their traditions--and move to a city like Saskatoon, it's a big leap. Does it affect them? Yes, it does. I believe it does.

On curriculum, we do language and culture programs in most of our schools. We spend a fair amount of time developing language programs in Dene, Cree, and Dakota. At the grand council, with the second-level services we have, we have consultants specifically for that. And that's a very important aspect of school in our communities and for mums and dads in our communities.

At the post-secondary level there are courses they take, but I think if I were to comment, my understanding is that when students go to post-secondary school, in some way they leave that at their community, and it's a very difficult thing.

The other thing that comes across many times in the surveys we've done with our students is that they run into a fair amount of discrimination and racism. It can be as simple as knocking on a door and asking, “Can I rent this apartment?” and being told “No.” “How come?” “It's for rent.” Or “We want some other people because they have a couple of kids.” It's a delicate subject, but I have to say it. They do run into it. There are different factors that take place in post-secondary. From the students I've taught, they run into this discrimination from time to time. So there are a fair number of hurdles.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Maybe you could just comment on a provincial partnership.