Evidence of meeting #27 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was reserve.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Patrick Brazeau  National Chief, Congress of Aboriginal Peoples
Vera Pawis Tabobondung  President, National Association of Friendship Centres
Peter Dinsdale  Executive Director, National Association of Friendship Centres

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Colin Mayes

I will open the meeting of the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development for Thursday, November 23, 2006.

Committee members, you have the orders of the day before you. Once again, we'll be reviewing Bill C-292, An Act to implement the Kelowna Accord.

The witnesses today are from the Congress of Aboriginal Peoples, with Patrick Brazeau. We have the National Association of Friendship Centres, with Vera Pawis Tabobondung, president; Peter Dinsdale, executive director. And we have the Native Womens Association of Canada, with Sherry Lewis, executive director.

I see Sherry is not here yet, but we can get started.

Mr. Brazeau, is the gentleman beside you part of your delegation?

9:10 a.m.

Chief Patrick Brazeau National Chief, Congress of Aboriginal Peoples

Yes.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Colin Mayes

Will he be speaking?

9:10 a.m.

National Chief, Congress of Aboriginal Peoples

Chief Patrick Brazeau

I don't believe so.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Colin Mayes

Okay. Could you identify him for the record?

9:10 a.m.

National Chief, Congress of Aboriginal Peoples

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Colin Mayes

Welcome.

We're going to give the witnesses an opportunity to speak for ten minutes, and then we will be asking questions.

A few of our Liberal colleagues are a little late. They had a caucus meeting. I'm sure they'll be wandering in, in a few minutes.

Mr. Brazeau, we would like to start with you, please.

9:10 a.m.

Bloc

Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Why are they not here, Mr. Chairman?

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Colin Mayes

There are some troublemakers in the House.

9:10 a.m.

An hon. member

Who's a troublemaker?

9:10 a.m.

Bloc

Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Nation, nation...

Okay, it's a joke. We can stop, Mr. Chairman.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Colin Mayes

Mr. Brazeau.

9:10 a.m.

National Chief, Congress of Aboriginal Peoples

Chief Patrick Brazeau

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am pleased to speak this morning about the concept of nation. I thank you for having invited us to discuss with you Bill C-292.

To begin with, I want you and your colleagues to know that I'm a vigorous proponent of meaningful debate in respect of bringing about real improvements to the aboriginal quality of life in this country. I hope my remarks will serve to inform you as you deliberate this proposed legislation.

9:10 a.m.

Bloc

Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Could you please talk more slowly, so that the interpreters can keep up?

9:10 a.m.

National Chief, Congress of Aboriginal Peoples

Chief Patrick Brazeau

As I am certain many honourable members may have questions to ask and comments to make, I will keep my remarks brief.

The Kelowna accord was introduced in the last moments of the last days of the last government. It is important to look at it for what it is and for what it is not.

The first ministers meeting in Kelowna, held almost exactly one year ago, was the culmination of a process that began in April 2004 through the convening of the Canada aboriginal peoples round table process. This undertaking was a significant one and was an effort that sought to avoid the prescriptive “made in Ottawa” approach to aboriginal affairs, which has virtually ensured the failure of previous attempts at dealing with the reform of Canada's aboriginal affairs.

A new approach was called for, one that promised collaboration, cooperation, and accommodation. I cannot sit before this committee and say that our organization did not welcome this news at that time. In our view, there is no aspiration more noble than to commit to ending aboriginal poverty.

There can be no better goal than to ensure that all of Canada's aboriginal peoples are able to stake their share in our nation's abundant prosperity. We all have an obligation to provide hope for our youth and the next generation of aboriginal peoples to come. Given this, we must end the rhetoric and act now.

On the basis of this promised partnership with the government of the day, and with the full hope that the congress and its member communities would be equal participants in this historic undertaking, we set forth on an 18-month process that promised to yield results for a generation. Thus, at least at the outset, what Kelowna was to CAP was an offer of inclusion and accommodation and a pursuit that aimed to rise above partisan politics, both at the parliamentary level and across the aboriginal horizon in conjunction with the five national aboriginal organizations.

CAP also viewed the round table process and the first ministers meeting as an opportunity for outreach and education to politicians and officials alike, providing them with the facts around the off-reserve, including status, non-status, and Métis realities in respect of Canada's aboriginal affairs.

The numbers around this constituency are very telling. l'd like to share them with you today, as I have been doing for months now, and will continue to do with other parliamentarians, senior officials across the bureaucracy, and members of the parliamentary press gallery.

The Government of Canada census indicates that 79% of Canada's aboriginal people live off reserves. Of the status Indian population, 51% live off reserves. Yet, despite these figures, out of the over $9 billion spent yearly by the federal government on aboriginal programming and services, for every $8 spent on reserve, only $1 is spent off reserve.

Surely the Canada aboriginal peoples round table process would have addressed this. Certainly the investments that were to have flowed from the Kelowna commitments would have reflected this obvious demographic reality. The answer to both of those questions is, sadly, no.

In fact, 90% of the so-called funding commitments were to benefit primarily on-reserve peoples. What Kelowna sought to do was to throw more money at a system that has failed first nations people for over 130 years. The fact remains that off-reserve, non-status, and Métis peoples outside the so-called homelands are equally legitimate and deserving of the same degree of attention and accommodation.

Poverty, sickness, and despair know no geography and need no distinction. Unlike the rights of first nations people, which end at the reserve borders, suffering is indeed a portable issue. In my view, Kelowna provided false hope for grassroots people, people with real needs, while enriching organizations and the aboriginal elitist groups.

We trust you will agree that building real and sustainable hope for a generation requires more than partisan politics. We ask this, since, based on this evidence, it is clear that the Kelowna process was not about inclusion. It was not about recognition and accommodation. It was about considering hundreds of thousands of people, including me, who don't live on these small tracts of land called reserves, as less important than others who do.

We learned of the Kelowna commitments the same way members of the press did—through a news release issued at the conclusion of a news conference held at the closing of the first ministers meeting. We believe the current government has made its position on the Kelowna investments well known. Though they support the objectives of the commitments, they see the need for a more concerted strategy and plan in respect of their resourcing and delivery to ensure that no one gets left behind.

We are asking the current government to move at this time and provide real, practical, tangible results to better the lives of aboriginal peoples.

In the meantime, our people await real hope and the relief that only real change can bring to improve the lives of aboriginal people. Specifically, it is our counsel to this committee that you determine with certainty how the proposed $5.1 billion in funding would be disbursed across the provinces and territories, the extent to which the investments will be allocated on and off reserve, and what measures would be taken to ensure that national aboriginal organizations have the necessary capacity to assist in its delivery. Further, and perhaps even more fundamental, is the need to ensure that appropriate report card mechanisms are in place to ensure accountability, responsibility, and transparency in their use by the provinces, territories, and national aboriginal organizations.

Accountability is essential in our crusade to eradicate poverty. Public funds fuel this crusade. Canadians both need to and deserve to know whether we are making real progress or if changes to an approach are required in order to ensure success.

Over the past year, I have met with many of you, from all political stripes and across this land, in an effort to ensure that we share an understanding of the challenges our people face. Our aim has been, and remains, to engender debate, provoke sincere bipartisan discussion, and hopefully, through this, bring about meaningful and sustainable progress.

I hope this committee, in its study of this proposed bill, will send a message to aboriginal people from sea to sea to sea that Parliament speaks for all those in Canada who seek a share of its boundless prosperity, and that, similarly, this Parliament chooses hope, through inclusion and accommodation, over partisanship and politics on the backs of this country's most disadvantaged.

In closing, I'd like to offer for debate three potential solutions that I believe will make a real difference in the lives of aboriginal people. One, eliminate the Indian Act and replace with it with a nation recognition legislation—again, the concept of nation. Two, address the issue of jurisdiction and responsibility for Canada's aboriginal people. Three, introduce measures to ensure greater accountability, responsibility, and transparency by aboriginal organizations and band councils throughout this country to those they represent.

I invite your questions.

Thank you. Merci . Meegwetch.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Colin Mayes

Thank you, Mr. Brazeau.

Madame Tobobondung.

9:15 a.m.

Vera Pawis Tabobondung President, National Association of Friendship Centres

I want to say good morning and meegwetch for the opportunity to be here and present to the standing committee.

I want to acknowledge the Creator for the day he has given us today. I want to acknowledge the peoples whose territory I am honoured to be in today, and most certainly I want to acknowledge all of you for your work, that what has become known as the Kelowna accord can be seen as the most significant aboriginal policy initiative since the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples.

From April 2004 to November 2005, an historic process was undertaken where the big five national aboriginal organizations were provided unprecedented access and opportunity to address the multi-faceted barriers facing first nations, Métis, and Inuit peoples in this country. The entire process culminated in a first ministers meeting on aboriginal issues, where 14 jurisdictions agreed to an action plan.

Despite all this, friendship centres demonstrated outside the meeting, but we did so with a heavy heart because friendship centres support the measures contained in their agreements. We felt they did not go far enough. The agreements failed to adequately deal with the 50% of first nations, Métis, and Inuit people who live in urban areas. The agreements would not provide the programming and resources necessary to meaningfully impact the issues our clients face every day.

Friendship centres background: this is an important distinction. Friendship centres, like the five national aboriginal organizations consulted and present during the first ministers meeting, are service delivery bodies. We do not claim to represent a certain segment of aboriginal people; we serve all of them: first nations, both status and non-status; Métis from all areas of Canada; and Inuit peoples. Friendship centres are in 116 communities across Canada--large, medium, and small communities. They are places of gathering and refuge for aboriginal women to take their rightful place in leadership and governance in our agencies and communities, for our young people to access programming and to become engaged and empowered; they are places to celebrate and practice our cultures.

Friendship centres are places to heal, places to find food when you're hungry, access to training when you need it, and start on the path toward a better life for you, your family, and your nation.

Last year, Friendship centres provided over 1.1 million client services across Canada. Friendship centres possess an impressive capacity to reach the often forgotten urban aboriginal population.

Friendship centre experience: we brought all this experience to the first Canada aboriginal peoples round table on April 19, 2004. There we witnessed from the outside the beginning of over 20 months of deliberations and planning. Despite being the largest aboriginal service to the infrastructure in Canada, we were afforded no opportunity to provide policy advice or insight into matters considered.

During the round tables, we were forced into a distinction-based conversation on how the Métis Nation should address lifelong learning, develop their housing stock, or define and demonstrate accountability. No space was provided in the dialogue for a broader urban aboriginal conversation on how to address education needs, what housing services are required, what level of jurisdiction is responsible for these areas, what is the role of representative bodies, what is the role of service providers. Indeed, a historic opportunity was lost.

Our first demonstration occurred during the May 31, 2005, policy retreat with the leaders of the five national aboriginal organizations and the aboriginal affairs committee. We wanted to highlight the important conversation that was being missed.

The Prime Minister met briefly with us to hear our concerns. He agreed that some role should exist for this conversation to occur and challenged his officials to find one. They failed.

Not only were we not afforded an opportunity to participate in the dialogue, we were not even able to submit reports for consideration. In the days and weeks before the first ministers meetings, the government assured us that Kelowna was just a start, that it was not perfect, that they would look at the specific urban issues in implementation and follow-up.

Still we decided to hold an information rally outside out of the first ministers meeting to remind everyone involved that the work is not done. It was incomplete.

We must come together and address urban issues in the implementation and beyond.

Despite all of this, the friendship centre movement still encourages the federal government to support the measures contained in the Kelowna accord. In part, this is because we recognize the benefits that would accrue to all aboriginal peoples by proceeding with a comprehensive plan, a process rather than a piecemeal approach.

We have also signed an MOU with the Assembly of First Nations that will ensure our involvement in future initiatives and discussions that follow on Kelowna.

It is important that we do not stop there. We must get to work on addressing the issues that our clients face.

If we are to effect meaningful change to the life conditions that first nations, Métis, and Inuit peoples face, we must develop some thinking on the urban dilemma. We must get past our jurisdictional divides. We must think bigger than our own organizations.

Bill C-292 is short. It seeks to get this government to commit to the terms of the Kelowna accord.

For us, this includes the text of the plans developed. It includes the approach of working with aboriginal groups on the issues facing our communities. It includes adding to this work to address the urban challenges facing first nations, Métis, and Inuit peoples.

It is no secret that Kelowna was not perfect. No process ever is.

Our recommendations: to believe and support it; to believe and support Kelowna; to believe that our work didn't end there; and to believe that we need “Kelowna plus”.

Thank you very much.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Colin Mayes

Thank you for that presentation.

I just want to advise the committee members that Sherry Lewis, the executive director of the Native Womens Association of Canada.... Somehow they got their wires crossed and she didn't realize she was supposed to be here. They are right now in the office trying to find somebody who might be able to come to this committee meeting. If not, we'll have to possibly reschedule or not have the opportunity to speak to them.

The other issue is that I'd like to leave fifteen minutes at the end of this meeting to discuss a couple of the motions that have been forwarded.

Is that fine with the members?

9:25 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Colin Mayes

Okay, we will do that.

We will start our questions with the Liberals.

You would be first, Madam Neville.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

Thank you very much.

I apologize to those who are here for being late. I was delayed in another meeting.

Mr. Brazeau, I wonder whether you would mind going over, for me, your three recommendations that you summarized at the end, please.

9:25 a.m.

National Chief, Congress of Aboriginal Peoples

Chief Patrick Brazeau

Number one is to start talking about the elimination of the Indian Act. First nations people living on reserve have been under that system for 130 years now and it hasn't been working. I've been quite vocal in the last couple of weeks that there are too many chiefs and not enough Indians.

If you look at Canada as a whole, you have one prime minister who represents 33 million people. In the aboriginal world, you have 633 chiefs who represent approximately 275,000 people living on reserve.

We know the Indian Act has significant problems of governance and accountability. If we're going to eradicate poverty, eliminating the act is one step in the right direction. There are a lot of chiefs who are not supportive of this undertaking. On reserve is where they get their power, their control over the people. They get to spend money, public funds, on reserve, and they don't have to be held accountable to the people they represent. At least let's start having this debate. It would go a long way towards eradicating poverty.

My second recommendation concerns jurisdiction for aboriginal people, specifically those who live off reserve. We know that the federal government has jurisdiction over Indians living on reserve, and Inuit people as well. But when it comes to off-reserve aboriginal and Métis people, it's a toss-up between the federal and provincial governments. People fall between the cracks because nobody assumes responsibility for them. So there's also a debate needed with respect to clarifying jurisdiction for off-reserve aboriginal people, who are the majority of the aboriginal population in this country.

My third recommendation is to bring about more governance, accountability, and transparency measures within the current reserve communities. Let's face it, approximately half of the reserve communities across this country still deny off-reserve members the right to vote in band elections. This is despite a 1999 Supreme Court ruling in the Corbiere decision, which allowed for off-reserve voting. Approximately one-third of reserve communities are either in third-party management or other financial difficulties.

I think the debate is needed. We can talk about Kelowna all we want, but debate is needed to tackle the real problems in this country and face them head on. If we're going to make significant changes and improve the lives of people, we have to get to those problems, and not throw more money into a system that's not working anyway.

Those are my three recommendations.

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

You talk about the elimination of the Indian Act as a means of eliminating or alleviating poverty. Certainly Kelowna was intended to close the gap for aboriginal people across this country, whether it's in education, health, or economic independence. I don't have to go through it. Could you be more specific about how the elimination of the Indian Act would alleviate poverty?

9:30 a.m.

National Chief, Congress of Aboriginal Peoples

Chief Patrick Brazeau

That's a good question and the answer is very simple. If I take the example of the Algonquin people, of whom I'm a part, across Ontario and Quebec there are nine Algonquin reserve communities. Eliminating the Indian Act would offer the opportunity for those nine communities to amalgamate and form the true historical Algonquin nation. They would be able to create their own constitution, decide on their citizenship, and develop their own accountability and transparency measures. It would be a method for reunification.

Let's face it, the Indian Act divides people, gives different labels to people. Without it, we would be able to get together and form our true historical first nation. We'd be able to discuss revenue-sharing and developing our own economic base on the traditional territory of the Algonquin people, as opposed to Crown lands. We would be able to partner with different levels of government and private enterprises so that we could move towards own-source revenue and stop the dependence on the federal government for funding.

That just makes sense. We cannot, as aboriginal people, depend for the rest of eternity on federal funds and taxpayers' dollars to run small administrations on reserves. We have to think big and move in that direction to benefit people.

We always hear chiefs saying we have to get rid of the Indian Act, but actually, they hide behind it. That's where they get their employment, their control over the people, and that's how they turn around and ensure that the people below them in the communities stay below them. They become an elitist group. We have to move away from that.

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

Do I have more time, Mr. Chair?