Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 14th, 2008

[Christine Cram]

There's one of them, though, that.... It comes into effect as soon as the first first nation has concluded its jurisdictional arrangement. It will be up and running, so they are there. When I say the two, FNESC is there and the authority will be there. Its funding, the funding for it--because it will have a role in the legislation--was included in the request for funding related to implementing these education agreements.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Thank you.

Next is Mr. Schellenberger. You have five minutes.

[Gary Schellenberger, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

I'd like to share my time, if I could.

I'd just like to say, regarding the flood evacuees from Kashechewan this year, that my riding of Perth—Wellington was a recipient of those evacuees, and we were very pleased to do that.

There was an article in the paper in which one of the residents who had been evacuated stated that the only thing that saved the government was the dike, but the dike was made of stone and mud, or gravel. It was my understanding that the diking was a two-year program.

Seeing that the dikes held, are there going to be more upgrades to that diking so that this evacuation doesn't have to happen every year?

[Michael Wernick]

Ms. Cram.

[Christine Cram]

Thank you.

Yes, indeed, the plan to fix the dike is a multi-year project. Certain investments were made this past year for this year, but there are further investments that will need to be made to improve the dike, so we're working with the community to have that done.

The challenge in evacuations is that when you have a fly-in community, you have fewer options to move people at the last minute. What we're hoping is that the dike will be improved so it will withstand any flooding. That's not to say in future years we won't still need to make some precautionary evacuations, because you don't want to put people's lives at risk. But we are certainly hoping the dike will protect the community from ever flooding. We would need to evacuate only if we were concerned that there was any risk to individuals.

[Gary Schellenberger, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

I'm quite sure that a two- or three- or four-day evacuation is a lot less expensive than a two-week or three-week evacuation. I know when they came to Stratford there was talk that they could be there for a week to two or three weeks, so we were very pleased to have been hosts to those fine folks. I hope the dikes do hold, but it's reassuring to find out that they did hold quite well this year. Thank you for that.

Those are all my questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Okay.

Mr. Clarke.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

What criteria did you use in making major capital decisions as part of the long-term capital plan?

[Michael Wernick]

I'll again turn that over to Ms. Cram, if it's okay.

We have a four-part ranking scale, as we've discussed with the committee on more than one occasion in past appearances.

We have a pot of money, we have a whole bunch of pressures, and then basically the job every year is to allocate it and try to get as many projects squeezed out every year as possible and not leave any money on the table.

Perhaps I can turn to Christine on the ranking criteria.

[Christine Cram]

The first one is protection of health and safety and assets. The second one is health and safety improvements. The dike would be a health and safety improvement, for example. Third is recapitalization and major maintenance, which is to extend the useful life of an asset. The fourth is growth. As folks in this room will know, there is a lot of pressure on growth, because first nations have the highest growth rates in the country. You run into situations where you have schools or other facilities that need to be expanded.

That's the four-part categorization that's used in assessing which capital projects will be undertaken.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Thank you.

Next is Mr. Russell. You have five minutes.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Mr. Chair, I want to go back to a question raised by my colleague, because I find it profoundly important. It was on the report the Auditor General came out with on child and family services. I thought the minister wasn't clear in terms of his response.

Item 4.6 on page 22 of the Auditor General's report says that under the current Treasury Board authority, starting April 1, 2008, INAC has to deduct special allowance payments from its funding for the maintenance costs of first nations children in care. Is that true or not? So there's a Treasury Board authority?

[Christine Cram]

There is a Treasury Board authority that says that. However, because of provinces, particularly Alberta, talking to us and first nations talking to us about this and our looking at this issue, we are not implementing that this year and we're looking into the matter further.

We are seeking the extension of that. I don't know that we've conveyed that to every first nation and every province at this point, but we have certainly conveyed it to some. So it's not our intention to implement that this year.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

That's definite, across Canada?

[Christine Cram]

That's definite, across Canada. This has been conveyed to Alberta first nations and we've conveyed that to the province. I just can't confirm whether we've conveyed it to all provinces and first nations.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Thank you very much.

That's very clear.

On community infrastructure, away from hypotheticals and the fact that we might have A, B, C, D, E, F, G supplementaries, have you looked at what you've spent on infrastructure and what we had on infrastructure last year and what you told us black-on-white? It's less. Is that not right? To date, you're going to spend less on community infrastructure? Right now, today, looking at what we have in front of us, you're going to spend less on community infrastructure this year than you spent last year. Is that not right? There are just two figures.

[Michael Wernick]

No. I don't believe that's right, if you add in the budget money for water, and we'd be happy to provide you with a table comparing the two years.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Those were together last year; now they're separated.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

I never asked Mr. Warkentin the question.

It's a common theme that ministers don't answer in the House, but I didn't think it pertained to committee.

[Michael Wernick]

We'll provide you with a written comparison, year-to-year. If you include the budget money, which is being passed by Parliament in the next little while, it will come up to almost exactly the same amount this year as last year.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Well, we're going to have to wait a little while to see if that proves out.

On relations, the Office of the Federal Interlocutor is going from about $35 million down to $29 million. Why is that? Because there's no evidence across the country, it seems, that there's been any type of agreement or real agreements based on section 35 and the Powley decision that deal with Métis groups. Is there one agreement with one organization across the country, a section 35 agreement?

[Michael Wernick]

I'm not sure what you mean by a section 35 agreement.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Rights agreement. A rights agreement, a constitutional agreement based on the Powley decision.

[Michael Wernick]

These are sunsetting funds for Powley discussions, which were renewed, so they will again show up in supplementary estimates, and I'd be happy to give you a written update on the work on Powley. The OFI also does work on the urban aboriginal strategy.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

My last question is this. Comprehensive land claims are also very important. There have been many concerns raised about the government meeting its obligations under modern treaties, like some of the Inuit agreements. I think about Nunatsiavut just recently, in 2005. Is the department doing anything to improve that, and can you just tell me what the department is doing to improve it?