Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 31st, 2009

[Timothy Gardiner]

Yes.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Okay.

Other than SINED, are there other programs in place to target economic development in the north? I guess a better way to say it is to ask what other programs are in place.

[Timothy Gardiner]

SINED is the flagship program, run out of the northern affairs organization at the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development. There are a couple of new programs introduced in budget 2009, which we're in the process of thinking through as to how they're going to be delivered in the three territories. One is the community adjustment fund recently announced; the other is Recreational Infrastructure Canada. These are really at the early stages of development at this point, so there's not a lot of detail available.

The department also runs, out of a different sector, the lands and economic development sector, a number of aboriginal economic development programs. I understand that the spending under these programs for grants and contributions in the territories is approximately $12 million a year.

[Patrick Borbey]

Let me add that the delivery of those programs in the north is done in an integrated way. The same employees who deliver SINED also deliver the aboriginal program, so that there's no duplication or confusion and clients have a single-window approach.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Yesterday there was a $1 million announcement for Aurora College—is it a college?—that's for operator training. Would it be managed through the SINED office?

[Patrick Borbey]

Yes. There are a number of training programs that we've managed that don't necessarily fit the HRSDC programs, so they've been funded through SINED, especially mobile types of programs, which take the instructors and the tools to the communities where the programming can be delivered. There are certainly those kinds, and the minister made a number of announcements yesterday, including $1 million for this program, which is run out of Aurora College.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

South of 60, we have a major projects management office, but it's not contemplated that it will operate north of 60. Is there an equivalent contemplated? If so, when would it be likely to be budgeted? I don't believe it's budgeted for in the current fiscal year.

[Patrick Borbey]

The major projects office run out of NRCan does not apply in the three northern territories, because it is designed in a different way. It's also because of the nature of the northern regulatory system, with the aboriginal land claims being the fundamental building block behind the regulatory system.

So there are differences. The Prime Minister, however, indicated earlier that there will be a satellite office established for the north. We are providing advice to him in that context, as to how it can be achieved while minimizing any duplication and trying to use the tools that have been developed for the major projects management office at NRCan and working very closely with them. That coordination role is an important one to play from an economic development perspective, to ensure that for all the projects you see on the map the proponents have good, integrated support from federal organizations as they make their way through the regulatory system. This is part of the vision we're developing.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Speaking of all these sites on the map, we have some of those sites, for example the Giant Mine, with some pretty large environmental liabilities attached to them at this point.

I don't know how to pose the question, but the question is that a lot of this has fallen onto the federal government. Going forward, we obviously don't want to continue to accrue those kinds of liabilities. I assume the McCrank report addressed this partially or wholly. So what is our direction? What is the federal direction in trying to deal with the existing liabilities and to prevent future liabilities, and what lessons can we learn?

Also, could you clarify which diamond mines we're currently in ownership of at this point?

[Patrick Borbey]

Basically, we do have two major mines that are currently part of our inventory for remediation, and those are Giant Mine and Fero Mine. There are some smaller ones as well. We've inherited them from the past, when a different type of regime existed, where companies were able to declare bankruptcy and walk away from their assets, and these mines then ended up reverting back to the crown. So on behalf of all Canadians, we are proceeding with remediation.

We're well advanced in the case of both projects. These are very, very large, very expensive, and very long-term projects. We have an agreement in Fero with the Government of the Yukon and the three local first nations on a path forward, which will then have to be subjected to the environmental assessment and regulatory process.

In the case of Giant Mine, we have a preferred solution, in terms of refreezing the chambers that hold the arsenic trioxide, which is the danger right now. The rest of the site is being remediated—asbestos and things of that nature. That is now before the environmental assessment authorities in the Northwest Territories.

In the case of new mines, as I was mentioning earlier to Monsieur Lemay, we have conditions now that are much more stringent, including the condition that before a project goes ahead, there has to be a full remediation plan approved by the local board and money to support it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Duncan.

Now we'll go to Mr. Russell. We're on our second round now. Five minutes, Mr. Russell.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning to each of the witnesses.

Certainly from a regulatory perspective, it's my sense that the proper implementation of land claims is crucial. The federal government certainly has an obligation to live up to its share of the bargain.

I'll use only one example, that of land use planning. I've had a number of Inuit organizations or aboriginal governments talk about the non-funding of land use planning under the land claims agreements that have been settled. I would contend that such planning is a vital part of the regulatory perspective in moving forward. But proper funding is also important for the development and human capacity of these organizations to be able to participate, given their crucial role. The capacity of these organizations and governments to be participants is crucial, which means, again, that we should be funding these agreements. I would also contend that there are some outstanding land claims already on the table, and some that may be negotiated, which need to be settled in an expeditious manner in order to move forward. So I would just say that.

There has been some representation made as well that the discrete north-of-60 line is not so discrete. The northern economic development agency that is being contemplated is basically just for the three territories. I'm not sure if you've heard this, but people in Nunavik, for example, have asked why they aren't included under this northern economic development agency. I've had some people from Nunatsiavut, where the latest Inuit land claim has been signed, asking why they aren't included under the northern economic development agency. Some people respond that they're already covered under the northern Quebec one, or they're covered under ACOA in Labrador.

Is there any contemplation of allowing people to opt into this new agency at all? And are these different regions being consulted on this new northern economic development agency?

[Patrick Borbey]

Yes, early on. In fact our first engagement was with the Inuit from all four regions, including Nunatsiavut and Nunavik, so we certainly did hear the representation that they want to find a way. They understand the jurisdictional issues, but they want to find a way to be able to work with the new agency.

Part of our design is to find ways we can collaborate with ACOA and the regional agency for Quebec. We've already had some early discussions with them in terms of how we can have a pan-Inuit approach to some of our programming. We will be conscious of that, respecting the jurisdictions but at the same time understanding that some solutions will be pan-Inuit, for example.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Thank you.

I'm just wondering how you arrive at the dollar figure. The $50 million over five years for the northern economic development agency, is that just for all the administration and setup? There's no programming in that, is there?

[Patrick Borbey]

No. It's for all the roles we contemplate for the new agency, including anything that has to do with policy development, coordination, analysis. It's not just administrative; it's also getting involved and having people on the ground working with local groups.

I'll give you an example. Last year we allocated a couple of people to work with the Government of Nunavut and the Government of the Northwest Territories to develop a strategy, a business plan to access funding that was available for increasing broadband access. That directly led to almost $40 million of funding that was allocated to deal with a real need.

Some of the work that will be done will be program work, not in grants and contributions but in people working with communities to help leverage the work and access to funds elsewhere.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

There are many questions, but under Arctic sovereignty there seems to be a major policy focus of this particular government. I'm not going to make too many comments about whether it's the right or wrong focus, or what the emphasis should or should not be from my perspective. How much involvement do you guys have in that overall strategy? Are you a part of it at all?

I would see social development, economic development, whatever words you want to use, as being integral to this. I'm just wondering where you are with that and how you mesh with that.

[Patrick Borbey]

The northern strategy, which I referred to earlier on, is the responsibility of our minister, Minister Strahl. He has the overall lead for coordination of all federal activities in the north. That's part of his mandate as minister for northern development. He is the lead for the northern strategy, and as such he goes to cabinet and supports his colleagues with their proposals or brings proposals himself that have to do with the broader needs of the north.

We're very much plugged in. We also work closely with the Department of Foreign Affairs in anything that has to do with circumpolar relations, the Arctic Council. We're at the table and working with partners on both domestic and international issues that have to do with the north.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Borbey and Mr. Russell.

Now we'll go to the member for Kenora, Mr. Rickford, for five minutes.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses. I assume you're comfortable being called by your first names; that was a reference earlier. Okay, thanks.

[Patrick Borbey]

We're both northerners.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Okay, great. Thank you.

I want to develop some of the questions that have come from some of my colleagues. I want to start out by asking a very brief question about the definition of the north. I know we've been hedging at this, but for the purposes of your department, is there a physical boundary per se?

[Patrick Borbey]

That's a very good question, and it's one that has a number of answers.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Just briefly, though.

[Patrick Borbey]

It depends. The north, for the purpose of the basic functions that I perform, is the three territories. However, for anything that has to do with science, we use what they call the semi-continuous permafrost line, and that's a scientific definition that's used across the world. For example, the international polar year and the Arctic research infrastructure that the minister just announced yesterday include northern parts of the provinces.

We also include northern parts of the provinces for our food mail program because we recognize they face the same kinds of isolation issues. So for that purpose—

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

In terms of economic development, this is primarily confined within the territories.