Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 5th, 2009

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Are you saying a separate land claims implementation group would be useful?

[Richard Saunders]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Bagnell.

Now we have Mr. Payne for five minutes, and then we'll go back to Mr. Lévesque.

Mr. Payne.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for coming today. It's very interesting to hear your comments.

There are a couple of recommendations on pages 7 and 8 that you could help clarify, particularly number 13, involving accountability, and number 29, appropriate financial accountability. Could you provide your view of what this might look like?

[Richard Saunders]

What we need here is clarity. We haven't uncovered any terrible goings-on that need to be addressed. What we have discovered, though, is that there isn't clarity. If you have a responsibility, you need to know what it is exactly. You need to have some guidelines.

For example—we've had a representation that led us to consider this—suppose there's a big issue confronting a community and the chief asks how the people feel and says, let's have a referendum; what's your position on this issue? They say they want him to put a stop to that resource development.

So then the chief says, I think I have a mandate to address this. He meets with some other chiefs. Together they hire a public relations firm to oppose the resource development. Then they sign a contract...without names, this is true.

Later, somebody tells them to wait a minute, because they don't have a BCR saying they could do that. Well, the chief says, there isn't a bylaw saying I should have one, and I have a mandate from the people. Surely I can spend a few bucks fighting this development that they oppose.

It's either, no, you can't, or, yes, you can. Let's be clear on it. If you must have a BCR or a bylaw in order to spend band funds, let's say so. If a referendum will do, let's say so. I think we need clarity.

Accountability to the funding agencies is pretty clear. Accountability to the community members may not be so clear. This is not to say we think anybody is doing anything wrong; it's to say we need some clarity.

Do either of you guys want to add to this, or is that okay?

I hope that answers your question.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Yes, thank you.

I have one other question concerning item 2, recognition of the existence and continuity of traditional customs, and so on. How would that affect self-government and local customs, or would it affect them at all, in terms of provincial or federal law?

[Philip Awashish]

I think it is quite clear in the act itself that if there is any conflict between federal or provincial law, the act prevails. Even the bylaws enacted under the act prevail over provincial law. So if the act recognizes traditional law, customs, and practices in the exercise of local government, then obviously the bylaws or the traditions, practices, and customs would prevail over provincial law.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Could you give me some idea of what some of those customs or traditional laws might be?

[Philip Awashish]

Customs are centred around the values of the Cree people. One has to do with the way elections are conducted. There is a traditional way of carrying out the processes concerning elections. The chairman mentioned it earlier. Mr. Saunders mentioned that sometimes a death in the community may postpone the date of an election.

There are a lot of other matters concerning our practices. Our respect for authority is another. It's unwritten, but it's there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Mr. Lévesque, you have five minutes.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The last time Robert appeared before a committee, it was in a room on the other side. It had suggested bringing in wild goose and preparing a meal for us. The hunting season is now open, but I don't know whether he has brought his geese or where lunch will be held. He can clarify that a little later.

All joking aside, we know that, according to the position permanently held by the government, the commission does not have the authority to study matters concerned by the agreements or to make recommendations on that subject. During a visit in 2007, the assistant deputy minister of the Department of Indian Affairs seemed to revise the government position in that regard. At the time, Jim Prentice was minister, and today it's Chuck Strahl.

Did the minister put his foot in the door and head in that direction?

[Richard Saunders]

We have always taken the position that the commission has a mandate to look into complaints arising out of the James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement as well as the Northeastern Quebec Agreement. For many years, Indian Affairs took the position that we had jurisdiction only to look into matters arising under the act.

We noted some years ago that at the United Nations the department was making speeches claiming that Canada had a much better system of following up on complaints about implementation of treaties. They illustrated this claim by saying that the Cree-Naskapi Commission had a mandate to look into issues arising under the James Bay Agreement, to which we said, “Hey, we've been saying that for years”. Suddenly, the department changed its position and said we had a mandate to look at those issues after all.

We don't know who made the decision. Whether they made it to cover up a mistake, whether they actually changed it, or whether a minister was involved, we have no idea. But for whatever reason, they made the right decision, from our point of view.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

There are Cree and Algonquians in Pikogan. The Washaw Sibi Cree wanted to settle on the Bay James land. Recently, Pikogan has received permission to buy back land to add to the reserve.

Does that solve the problem of the Washaw Sibi Cree, whom we haven't seen in a long time? Are they continuing their efforts to get that land?

[Richard Saunders]

The Canada-Cree agreement from February of last year provides that the Cree will take responsibility for working with Washaw Sibi Eeyou to help them advance towards becoming a band. Washaw Sibi Eeyou is engaged in discussions about that. This agreement mandating the Cree Regional Authority to address part of the issue, however, does not let the federal government off the hook. They still have to resolve some of the issues that are within their jurisdiction.

We remind our friends at Indian Affairs that the responsibility for addressing this, including the cost, does not fall entirely to the Grand Council Cree Regional Authority. Indian Affairs still has an obligation to address the issues of a first nation without a land base or band status. We think that the department has a continuing role to play in resolving these issues.

I don't know if we've answered your question, but we've tried.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you for being here. I was pleased to see you again and I hope we'll have the opportunity to see you again soon.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, sir.

Now we're going to Mr. Clarke for five minutes.

Mr. Clarke, please.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to thank the witnesses for coming here today.

On page 7, clause 14, you just mentioned that you have “exclusive legislative authority on all matters respecting band (Eeyou Nation) elections”. Subsequently you mentioned “incorporation of traditional law, practices and customs respecting Eeyou elections”.

My home first nation right now is going through some troubled times in the electoral process, as the first nations have entered into their own band bylaw for their own elections act.

Now, I'm kind of curious here how long your terms are right now, respectively.

[Richard Saunders]

There's a capacity now for the individual first nation to have anything to up to four years. Some of them do. They can have a term of office of up to four years, and they generally do.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Currently through their election process, how long are they sitting for?

[Richard Saunders]

They sit for four years.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

They sit for four years each? Okay, I see.

You mentioned earlier that you had no turmoil in the election process. It seems to be working fine right now.

[Richard Saunders]

That's not exactly true. A number of the representations we've had have come from people who are unhappy with an election result, as you can imagine. If there's some technicality on which the person losing the election can hang their hat, we generally hear from them.

Sometimes it's valid and sometimes it's not valid. It's in the nature of politics that the fight doesn't always end on election day. So occasionally there's that kind of thing. Overall, however, the election process in Cree country works well.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

How long is the first nations election period?

[Richard Saunders]

We've just done a little bit of consulting with ourselves here. The election period is two months.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

On clause 18, you mentioned “enablement and improvement of law enforcement”, and then “development and establishment of appropriate system(s) for the administration of justice”.

My background, as a first nations, has been in policing, where I was in charge of my own detachment. What steps have been made by the Eeyou Nation for the formation of a policing force, first of all?