Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 5th, 2009

[Richard Saunders]

It's a broader justice, including the policing. The issues tend to be things like a need for appropriate drafting of bylaws in the first place, with the necessary expertise to make sure the bylaw is worded in a way that it will stand up in court and can be enforced.

Secondly, there's a need, where there's a bylaw infraction, to actually have a policing ability including jurisdiction, for example, on the access roads just outside the category IA land. So there are some jurisdictional policing issues.

There's a need for appropriate prosecution of offences and the expense that's involved in that. There has been the need, over the years, for the availability and accessibility of a court system that's adequate to the job of working in a remote area. If you're in a remote part of Canada, I think we're all aware that sometimes justice is a little delayed because of accessibility.

Those continue to be issues with the Cree. There has been a lot of comment on that over the years, but the problems continue to be in that area. Also, if you have a small community, the number of police officers you need to do enforcement is a little higher per capita, because of the need for 24-hour coverage and things of that sort, than it would be in a larger community, which on some quota basis would be entitled to a greater number of police officers.

The details of each of these things have been part of our reports for a number of years. But there's a cluster of those justice issues.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

So the Eeyou nations are looking more or less at a stand-alone police force? I understand the administrative justice and the court processes that would have to be entailed. You'd have to get your own provincial court judge to administer the statutes of provincial and federal laws.

Are you more or less looking at a peacekeeper status or as your own stand-alone policing force?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We're just about out of time, but a brief response would be fine.

[Philip Awashish]

There are the local police. They're affiliated with the Quebec police. But there are continued discussions on the Cree regional police force that will be set up. Also, I believe Bill C-28, amending the Cree-Naskapi (of Quebec) Act, refers to any police that will be established between the Cree and Quebec.

There are local police, and they are autonomous, in one sense, because they are the only police force empowered to enforce local bylaws. There's also the regional Cree police force that has been under contemplation as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you very much, Mr. Clarke, and thank you, Commissioner.

I'll take the last spot, and then I think we're just about wrapped up.

I'd like to refer back to Mr. Bélanger's question in regard to the list of what you deem to be non-contentious items; I think you also described them as housekeeping items. If you could give us that list in the few days ahead, that would be helpful.

I have a question, though, in that same vein. On that list of items, I think you mentioned quorum and election bylaws in particular. If those items as you describe are not contentious or housekeeping, and were considered further by the House, do you anticipate that there would have to be additional consultations? What would be required to go back to the communities and seek their consent or approval to proceed with such amendments along those lines?

[Richard Saunders]

Most of what we've called non-contentious items have originated with the communities, and have come through the leadership. What we would do, I think, is consult very quickly with the Grand Council of the Crees and the Naskapi Nation of Kawawachikamach to ensure that we're giving you the straight goods here and that they really are non-contentious.

We would probably suggest that the Grand Council, along with the Naskapi, make the case themselves, directly to this committee, through you as chair, so that you have it from the horse's mouth.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Could you define “very quickly”?

[Richard Saunders]

Okay. How about one week?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you for that.

I just want to point out to members, since the issue was raised, that in consideration of the rules in respect to amendments that quite possibly could come to a committee before second reading, any such amendments still have to be relevant to the act that's been tabled. That's point one.

Two, when committees consider that type of business prior to second reading debate, committees are afforded much broader scope in terms of what could be. For example, if those considerations came after second reading, amendments could only be considered within the scope of the bill that's already received approval or consent of the House at second reading. I just want to point that out to members so that they understand the distinction.

Finally, on that same point, of course only the House can in fact refer a bill to committee prior to second reading. So that has to be done essentially with the consent of the House.

I say all that just so that this is understood and in context. It's good reading in Marleau and Montpetit, if you want to take a look at it.

Mr. Bélanger.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

On that last point, I wouldn't dare contradict the chair, but my impression is that the decision to refer a bill to a committee before second reading actually belongs to the government. Once the government has made that decision and set the track, after five hours of debate it is automatically referred to a committee. So it's not a decision of the House, but indeed of the government.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

I stand corrected. It could be a decision of the House. It could also be a decision of the government. The House has the ability to do that.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

No, it does not. With a government bill, only the government can determine if it will be referred to a committee before second reading.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Bélanger.

I would like to thank very much the commissioners and the chair of the commission in attendance here today. This has been extremely helpful, especially on the eve of the committee's consideration of Bill C-28.

Unless there are other items of business, we stand adjourned. We'll see you on Thursday.

Thank you.