Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 26th, 2009

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you for that.

I know the committee is very interested in this, and I think rightfully so. It's a very exciting part of the overall portfolio. So I would encourage you in your work, and I look forward to any advice and reports you may have, because of course you will be able to talk to more people perhaps than I might have talked to, or different people. And I'm looking forward to your perspective, because the north is an exciting area when it comes to economic opportunity.

We have announced the creation of an economic development agency for the north. We've been at work behind the scenes. This is a new development, a new agency, so it deals with the machinery of government, if you will. We've been in discussions with northern governments and aboriginal organizations on what that might look like, but obviously the creation of that stand-alone agency that will be headquartered in the north, sensitive to northerners' needs, is a key part of what we're going to be doing. This is an exciting prospect. It was the number one ask just before and after the last federal election, certainly by the business community and the governments in the north. I'm looking forward to launching that shortly. That economic development agency is going to be a key part, not only in the delivery of regular development help but also in building capacity, working with other levels of government, both aboriginal and public. It's going to be a key part because it's an ongoing relationship that will be key for northerners.

We've also announced the renewal of the SINED programming. When we had the federal-provincial ministers meeting in January, just before the budget, one of the top asks from the northern governments was the renewal of SINED.

SINED has proven to be the flagship economic development tool for the government working with northerners, and it has proven to be very effective. Twenty years ago there wasn't such a thing.

This $90 million over five years is going to be a very important part of it. And my expectation is that as the economic development agency gets up and running, they will take over the administration of that SINED money as well, and the combination is going to be a nice package of economic opportunity, local knowledge, and control of the programming. It's going to be very exciting.

We're already in the middle of making some important changes on regulatory issues in the north. I'm sure you know this. You can always get a smile from northerners when you go up and talk about regulatory reform because nowhere else in the country do they understand it as well, and understand how broken it is, as they do up north. Not by design, but by evolution, it has turned into the most hopelessly complex regulatory regime in the country and it has proven to be an impediment to economic development.

Mr. McCrank delivered a report to me last year. We've started to move on the recommendations of the report, and we'll be engaging northerners to make further changes to harmonize regulatory activity to allow environmentally sound, proper development in the north in a way that allows business to succeed.

So I think we're on the right path in the north, but again, I look forward to any reports you might develop in your northern trips and research, because I think it's an exciting area that everybody wants to get right. But we need to move quickly to allow opportunities for northerners. They're champing at the bit, and we need to help them make it happen.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Another minute, Mr. Duncan, if you wish.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

We're talking about the estimates. I guess there's $50 million for the agency and $90 million for SINED. Is that an even-flow circumstance over the five years?

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

It's part of what we've announced for the north. The $50 million will get the agency up and running for the next five years. It's basically $10 million a year to get that going. The SINED is the $90 million you mentioned over the same period, so that's a substantial amount of funds. As that agency gets up and running, it will deliver the RInC program, which is a recreational facility program for the north, the same as the other regional development agencies. There's also money that was allocated in the budget, not to my department but through HRSDC for skills development, for ASEP programming. All of these things are being very actively used in the north. All of it, I think, will be better used and coordinated with the northern regional development agency. I think the package is going to be very good for skills development, employment opportunities, business opportunities. This is a “great news” story for all of Canada, but we want to make it a particularly “good news” story for northerners.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Duncan, and Minister Strahl.

We will now begin our second round.

Mr. Bélanger, you have five minutes.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

We've all started with Bill C-8. I don't want to be the exception here, Mr. Minister.

Allow me to tell you that the 40th Parliament has produced a very good and I think a very well-functioning standing committee. You may want to consider that in your next move, and you may want to consider what I talked about in the House, in the debate at second reading so far. You may want to make use of a provision in the rules of the House that allows a government to refer a bill to committee before second reading, thereby giving the committee greater latitude in working with the legislation, as opposed to putting it in a straitjacket of living with the second reading approval in principle and therefore reducing considerably the latitude the committee has.

I'll leave that with you.

I want to ask some questions about a program. This is about estimates, after all. Allow me to read from an interim report from your department dated March 2009 on the food mail review. I quote:

The program’s core funding of $27.6 million has long ceased to be adequate in the face of program demand and rising costs. For eight years in a row, since 2000-01, top-up funding has been required through supplementary estimates.

In the estimates that are before us, because we're dealing with the mains, your department is asking for $27.6 million for this program, Mr. Minister. Is that enough? I know the answer is you've already asked for an additional $38 million in the supplementary estimates. Why is the department not increasing its reference level?

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

You're right. What's in the mains is not enough, hasn't been enough for years, of course, and has required top-up. In fact, the rate of growth in spending on the food mail program has been quite a bit more than the rate of inflation for quite a number of years, so the numbers keep going up and up. When you talk to northerners, I wouldn't say they believe the quality of the service has gone up and up, so that's why we're headed toward a renovation of the programming.

The point is, we left the reference level as it is. I have a report from a special ministerial representative who has now started the consultation program process with aboriginal groups and territorial governments. My hope is to come back soon with the new program, and then the main estimates will reflect what the new program looks like.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

The main estimates were tabled in Parliament and the supplementaries right after, essentially. Your department knew that $27.6 million was not enough, yet you maintained that. Why?

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Again, it's a program in the middle of renovation, so we left the main estimates as they were. My expectation is that we're going to come up with something quite new and I think quite a bit better.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

But are the main estimates not to be a reflection of the true spending of government?

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Well, there's a whole parliamentary process, as you know, that deals with.... We have not only supplementary estimates (A) but supplementary estimates (B), and who knows what else. It's just inevitable that you do it that way.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Your department has looked into three communities, the pilot communities, to assess the program, and it concluded that 62% of the subsidy actually made it to the customers. Can you tell me where the other 38% goes?

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Of course, there are quite a few players in the system, including airline companies and retailers and so on. But a concern that we hear from northerners, for one thing, is that it's not visible. They can't tell where the subsidy is landing, and that's why we've had both internal reports, why I've hired a ministerial representative, and why aboriginal organizations, Inuit organizations, and others are so keen to renovate the program. They say it's a $15 pineapple, but how do they know if there's any subsidy in it?

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I understand, Minister, that it's not their responsibility to be accountable for the program. It's the government's responsibility, but you're telling me the government cannot tell me today where the other 38% of the subsidy goes.

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I could ask officials to talk on it, but as I mentioned, some of it will be going to airlines, some of it will be going to retailers. As you say, the consumer recognizes part of it, but the problem with it is that the way the system was set up—and you'll know because this is from Liberal days—the subsidy goes through Canada Post, it goes to the airlines, it maybe ends up on the retail floor. What we're looking at is a different system that is visible and is right at the retail level.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

One has to wonder how long you'd have to be governing before you stop referring to Liberal days.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

That's it, Mr. Bélanger. We're actually over time.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

No. I have a final question, very quickly, and then he can respond. It's very short, Mr. Chairman.

The program is to deliver food. It has been reported that very often the food arrives spoiled, yet there is no claims policy with Canada Post, the provider of the service. What is your intention to fix that, Mr. Minister?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Just a brief response, Minister.

Thank you.

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I'm not announcing the new program here today, and I think, understandably, we have to consult with aboriginal and Inuit organizations and other governments to make sure that when we make the announcement we deal with issues like spoilage and making sure the subsidy is visible, so that people know that the considerable investment Canadian taxpayers are making is actually having an impact on the price of good quality, healthy food for northerners.

So I'm not going to renovate here this morning, because we're in the process of this consultation with northerners directly. As we design the details of the program, of course we'll roll it out, but it won't be piecemeal. It will be after consultation with northerners.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Bélanger and Minister.

Now we're going to go to Mr. Albrecht for five minutes.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Minister, for being here today.

I noted with interest many of the increased investments in housing and economic development opportunities, schools, waste water, water management, and many other initiatives. In fact, if you look at the summary provided by the Library of Parliament, there is a very dramatic increase over the last four and a half or five years.

So I commend the department for that, and I think Canadians are happy to see us addressing some of these long-standing issues.

One of the things that I've had the privilege of doing over the last three and a half years since I've come to Parliament is meeting with a number of leaders from the Métis community. Increasingly, as I met with them, they appeared to be giving me the message that we weren't addressing their concerns, and I understand that last summer the Conservative government did sign a Métis Nation protocol with the Métis National Council. I was wondering if you could just give us a bit of an update as to the progress on the implementation of that protocol.

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

We did sign the Métis Nation protocol last September, I think it was. There was a lot of effort put into developing that by the Métis National Council. We obviously had a lot of negotiations to get to the signing of the protocol. It's something the MNC was delighted not only to sign but also to champion as a good example of improving relations between Métis governments and the federal government.

Since then, I've met with Métis leaders a number of times as well. There's a priority list of issues to be addressed in the Métis protocol, and we've been going through that list. For example, last week I met with the Métis National Council and the provincial affiliates. We were able to announce then the launching of a new service for Métis veterans, a portal or website that allows everything from the collection of important stories from Métis veterans to ensuring they get all the services they deserve, and it's done in a way that searches out additional Métis veterans. I compliment those who worked on that site, because that portal and the efforts that went into it are part and parcel of the Métis Nation protocol. The veterans are very important. The Métis are very proud of their veterans, as we all are, but they've taken a particular interest in them, and we were able to launch that.

We've also been working closely on Métis infrastructure projects. There are several projects that are in the works. We want to make sure the Métis get a good crack at some of the stimulus funds that are out there from the economic action plan.

I've also sent letters to the five premiers who are affected, urging them to consider how we may sit down in a multilateral way to deal with issues that are of concern to Métis. Some of the issues go back and forth into federal and provincial realms. In our and the Métis' opinion, there are times when a trilateral or multilateral setting is the best way to address these issues. So I've urged the provinces to do that, as have the Métis leadership. So I think we're moving forward on that.

I do want to congratulate President Chartier, and the provincial presidents as well—Presidents Chartrand, Poitras, Doucette, Dumont, and Lipinski, all of them—for just putting their shoulders to the wheel on improving relations between the federal government and the Métis in a way that's been very codified and allows us to set up regular meetings dealing with issues on a regular basis.

We are dealing with issues of core funding as well, which is another issue that was important to them, and we'll be making an announcement on that shortly.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Do we have some more time, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Yes, you have about a minute.