Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 5th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Yes, that is correct.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

It is funny, because the answers to all the questions that my colleagues opposite have asked can be found in this document. I am a little surprised.

[Gérard Asselin, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Not all MPs read.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

One question occurs to me. It is as if you are off playing by yourselves, if you will excuse the expression. You are working in one area and the northern plan is working in another. Everything is there!

Social and Economic Development Issues Next Steps the bilateral development of a social and economic development priorities to the Action Plan (2006-2009) by March 31, 2007, which may provide strategies and approaches to the following;

Has the plan been implemented. Is it still on some shelf somewhere, in Mr. Strahl's department? Can we help you to get it going? Everything is there. The answers to the questions you have been asked are there. The document is dated 2007. Has anything been done about it? Are people in Ottawa asleep?

Thank you.

[Gordon Miles]

From NEDCIN's point of view...NEDCIN came after the Inuit action plan. It's based upon the recommendations of the Inuit action plan, and it's focused particularly on community economic development. As such, we feel it is moving along the plan as it's outlined. Are we at the end? No, but we've made progress.

We have the MOU. We have the participation and the support of regional as well as national INAC personnel, along with the Inuit land claim organizations and their CEDOs. It's bringing together these parties to work together.

We talk about collaborative management. The purpose of collaborative management is to move the decision-making as close as possible to the communities, the end-users, because that way the decisions are the ones that in most cases will be both needed and wanted.

You asked if it has been implemented. We feel we're part of that implementation. Is it complete? Certainly not. But from the CED perspective, we think we're moving in the right direction.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

What is your greatest difficulty? Is there one that stands out above all the others when it comes to implementation? What is the greatest obstacle you have to face in implementing this plan?

[Gordon Miles]

I would say the major obstacle is the need to explain and educate about the reality of the north. When we talk about the cost of doing business in the north, we talk about the high cost of transportation. Those are just words. It's much more difficult to explain the impacts of those costs, the impacts of the lack of housing. What does it mean in the overall development plan?

You have many programs, territorial, provincial, and federal, that are trying to address these problems, but sometimes they work at cross purposes. Sometimes they work in isolation from the others. The Inuit and NEDCIN's perspective is to bring it together as much as possible, to maximize the contributions and outcomes to make it what's needed for the communities.

To go back to your question, the major obstacle is the lack of understanding and explaining to people.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Lemay.

At this point, members, because there has been considerable discussion about the action plan, I would first draw your attention to a page in the briefing package that you received from our analysts

—on page five. I do not know the page number in the French version.

On page 5 there is a reference to this report, which is an action plan. It would appear to be a joint report from the Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami and the Inuit Circumpolar Council. This report arose out of a 2005 agreement between ITK and INAC, which compelled this action plan.

It is likely, members, that this report was circulated to you. I would ask that you check with your office to see if you have a copy, but the reference is also given to you in the briefing package, and there's a website that you can find it on.

Mr. Lemay, do you have a question?

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I really do not want to sound like a broken record, but could each MP receive a copy, even though it is in English? We can see if we need it translated.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Of course.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

It is important for those who are going to Nunavut to be familiar with this document.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

I would certainly agree with that.

I have one final point on the reason the document wasn't circulated to all members. You all know, of course, that we must circulate documents in both official languages, so that's why we didn't have it in front of us here today.

There being no further questions on that, hopefully, we'll continue with Monsieur Duncan.

Mr. Duncan, you have the floor for five minutes.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Actually, I don't have a question. I just wanted to explain that the action plan was actually submitted to the previous INAC minister, Mr. Prentice. There was correspondence from Minister Prentice back to ITK asking for some more specifics, and there's more recent correspondence as well, so this is ongoing. What Mr. Lemay is saying is perfectly accurate. I think it's good for all members to take an interest and read the plan. That's all I wanted to say.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We have a slot here for questions as well.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

No, that's fine.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Let's go to Mr. Bevington, then.

Mr. Bevington, you weren't here for the first round, so we'll give you seven minutes. We'll start you off in quasi-first round, but it's the second round. You know what I mean.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I apologize to the witnesses. I got tied up at Rideau Hall with an investiture for one of my constituents. You understand the importance of recognizing northern heroes. You know that with our limited population, when we do get recognition at a national level, it's very important to honour it.

My concern and probably my expertise in northern issues have always been around energy. Last summer we saw the rising oil prices, and we all knew what that meant to northern territories--especially Nunavut, which is so reliant on fossil fuel energy sources and probably requires more per capita than anywhere else in the country.

Can you describe to me the direction Nunavut wants to take to ease that burden, and how the federal government could be assisting to a greater extent in ensuring that Nunavut has a future energy use that is more sustainable, more affordable, and more locally produced?

[Gordon Miles]

I'm not sure what Nunavut's strategy is. I can speak to some of the thoughts of the Inuit organizations. The Qulliq Energy Corporation is the agency within Nunavut that handles power, and they're looking at a hydro project within or near Iqaluit to try to provide some renewable resource generation. I'm sure they're also looking at some of the other technologies that are out there.

One of the problems they are encountering is the capital requirements that are placed upon the crown corporations. They cannot go over a certain limit. I forget the amount, but I think the hydro installation was $500 million or somewhere in that area. They couldn't borrow that much money because of the federal guidelines. I think that needs to be addressed, because based on the oil prices a year ago—and granted that they've dropped significantly since then—there was a four-year payback on the investment in this hydro.

That's one option. Are there are other options? I'm sure there are. From an Inuit perspective, the concern we have is how to ensure that Inuit organizations participate in those projects and reap the benefits so that it's not entirely a fly-in contract where people come from the south, do an installation, and turn around and leave. The lower cost would be a benefit, but what the Inuit are looking for is the ability to participate within those projects to train Inuit workers, to take the jobs both in construction and in the operation. Nunavut, and Qulliq Energy in particular, has an apprenticeship program. There was an announcement made last week about the number of apprentices who had, I believe, reached their journeyman status.

Major projects are the vehicle by which most of the training is going to take place, whether it's mining or major power projects or housing. In Nunavut, the Nunavut Housing Trust was set up in such a way that they are actually.... The cost per home has been increased because they are providing journeymen apprenticeship training, leading to journeymen in every community where they are building homes. So the timeframe for the construction is extended, the costs have gone up, but in the end they're going to have housing plus journeymen on site for other projects.

It's a balancing act, but it's a matter of working together to ensure that, moving forward, there are skilled tradespeople there for the position.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Your observation on the borrowing ability of the Nunavut government is mirrored in the Northwest Territories, where the Northwest Territories government under the NWT Act can only borrow $500 million, I think, for total borrowing. All these projects that come under the crown corporations fit in that envelope of the $500 million. If you're running a government that is responsible for the vast areas that you're responsible for in Nunavut—1.7 million square kilometres—and for the kinds of infrastructure requirements, this constraint is something that is actually really impeding progress, I know, in the Northwest Territories. I'm sure that's the same in Nunavut. Your observation there, I think, is very useful to understanding where the problems lie in moving ahead in these territories.

If you say that you have a project that had a four-year return, even if it were for a utility project we can look at 25- to 30-year returns as being acceptable and useful. Probably within that context this is a very attractive project, yet you can't proceed with it because you don't have the capacity within the system to make it work. The federal government has a role here, I'm sure.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We're really at the end of our time, but did you want to add a comment to Mr. Bevington's last commentary?

[Gordon Miles]

I could go on forever, so I probably shouldn't, other than to thank you for the opportunity.

I think I mentioned earlier that one of the main priorities of NEDCIN is to educate people on what things mean. That includes the Inuit in the communities, but it also includes the business community and governments—provincial, territorial, and federal. Mr. Bevington raised a very good point. I think the federal government has a responsibility to look at these spending limits and identify why they're there and the impacts. I don't pretend to understand why those limits are there, but I do know that it's hampering the ability to make a move that would be in the best interests of Nunavut. As a result, the parties should come together and say what has to be done and who has to do it to make these changes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Okay, we'll leave it at that.

Now we'll go to Mr. Martin for five minutes.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

There's a point of order from Mr. Duncan.