Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 5th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Go ahead, Mr. Miles.

[Gordon Miles]

First of all, the documents she mentioned, the MOU and the Inuit positions on CanNor and the federal framework for aboriginal economic development, I can make available. The working plan is actually a one-page document that came from the Inuit position on the FFAED. Those are available.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

That will combine those.

[Gordon Miles]

There is a difference between the southern application of programs and what happens in the Arctic. There are three main programs INAC delivers for aboriginal economic development that come under their LED program. These programs were designed for first nations, frankly, because there are many more first nations they have to deal with.

What happens when an Inuit organization tries to apply those guidelines is that they run into some significant problems that aren't taken into account. For instance, because there are no band councils, it was determined at one point that an Inuit CEDO was not eligible for multi-year funding. It took a lot of negotiations back and forth. Finally, Treasury Board came back and said that they were fine and could have multi-year funding, and it was given to that organization. In the meantime, there are two other organizations that are still limited to one-year funding.

Why does that make a difference? Because in the north, first of all, to get qualified staff is very difficult. You're competing in a very limited labour pool. You're competing against the federal government and against the territorial government. You need to offer employees who have the experience you need a significant wage package. If you're on a one-year contract, that's almost impossible.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We'll have to leave it at that. We're a little bit over time here, which I shouldn't allow.

Thank you very much, both of you.

Now we'll go to Mr. Bevington for five minutes.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I had a question about housing. There has been some fairly significant two-year money for housing from the federal government, but it's not a long-term, ongoing program. How well can Nunavut handle the dollars it's been given in a shorter program? Do you see that it would be more advantageous to Nunavut to have a longer rollout of the dollars for this?

[Gordon Miles]

I don't know if it's a longer rollout as much as more dollars. The $400 million, I believe, is the commitment at this point in time, and that is certainly significant, but it doesn't even much more than partially address the need. The housing lists are huge in every community, with, I think, one exception in Nunavut. The current program will help address that, but it is not going to eliminate the lists. In fact, if you look at the demographics, a lot more houses have to be built in the very near future or we're going to have a crisis.

When you look at the numbers in the south, it's 1.2 people or something, and in the north the average household is 3.7. That doesn't tell the story. You have three-bedroom houses with 12 or 14 people in them. There is absolutely no privacy. There is no room. These are small homes. They're not large. They talk about housing, and the respiratory problems in Nunavut in particular, I think, are coming partly from housing—not solely, but that is an issue.

Listen, $400 million is a huge amount of money; don't get me wrong. It's welcomed, and they're doing their best, but it's not the answer. There is a much greater need that needs to be addressed, and that hasn't happened yet.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

In the last federal budget there was $200 million over two years: $100 million for Nunavut, $50 million for the Northwest Territories, and $50 million for the Yukon. That was my understanding.

[Gordon Miles]

I think you're right. Is it a $300 million total for Nunavut?

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

That would be going back to maybe 2006. There was more money there.

We're funding something, but we're not funding it on a long-term basis. You're going to put in place expensive expediting delivery systems for housing products when you don't know two years from now whether you're going to continue to have that money.

That's my question to you. Would it help if there was an understanding that you could start planning five years ahead to build housing, and the federal government would understand that and come forward in that fashion?

[Gordon Miles]

Very much so. That would be helpful.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

I want to touch briefly on food mail, if I could. That food mail program is back up for review. There's a draft report on it.

Is there any sense that you could see that we could change the food mail system to be a retail subsidy at point of purchase? Do you think that might alleviate some of the problems? Is there a discussion going on in Nunavut on the food mail and the direction it should be taking?

[Belinda Webb]

To provide an update on the last part of your question, at the AGM in Nain, Nunatsiavut, our board actually discussed the review of the food mail program. It's currently a file that's in our health and environment department, and there are ongoing discussions regarding that. The main lead in regard to that discussion at the board meeting came from Inuvialuit, of which our regional president is Nellie Cournoyea. I believe they're talking about different ways by which this could probably improve. So there are discussions happening.

I can also provide, along with the suggested items from Mr. Stanton, a little bit of an update as to where we are in regard to the food mail.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We'll have to call it at that, actually. We're right at time.

Did you have a very short comment to add?

[Gordon Miles]

I can't do anything short, I'm sorry.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you very much.

We'll go back to Mr. Payne for five minutes, and then I have Mr. Russell and Mr. Bagnell remaining on the list.

Mr. Lemay, do you have a question?

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Let me see.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

All right, we'll proceed with Mr. Payne, followed by Mr. Bagnell and Mr. Russell, and then we'll see where we are.

Go ahead.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Like my fellow colleagues, I thank you for your attendance here.

I was interested in a couple of areas. One certainly was around the shortage of housing. The first question I have is, what is the shortage? Do you have a number in terms of how many units are actually needed?

[Gordon Miles]

I don't. I spent ten years in Nunavut, so my experience is focused on Nunavut. I've only been with the national committee for a year now.

In Nunavut, in the community of Clyde River, which has about 800 people, there were 143 on a waiting list for housing, and that's 143 family units. Some of those would be single men with no children. They are never going to get a unit. It's just not going to be possible, because obviously they'll take the families first and work their way back.

In one case a family came back to the community. They were from there; they had left for three years for education. They came back, and it took them two years before they could get an accommodation.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

I have another question. In terms of housing and certainly the shortage, what's the capacity to build? How many houses could they build per year?

[Gordon Miles]

I think they're probably stretching the limits now in Nunavut with the Nunavut Housing Trust. They could certainly build more units if they wanted to just contract it out and not worry about the training and the long-term benefits of having skilled journeymen in each community.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

I understand that, but it doesn't tell me how many they can actually build per year. Do you know that number?

[Gordon Miles]

I think they could probably build depending on whatever funding was available. They can find contractors who can go in and do it. I don't think that's a limit.