Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Feb. 12th, 2009

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

And that if you are told to do it, you will, which is to do it within five years from June 1. It reminds me of somebody being asked to pour a foundation in the pouring rain: “If you tell us to do it, we will.” We were very clear that it should be five years from the appointment of the commissioners.

My final questions have to do with the accountability that Ms. Crowder was talking about. In the absence of a chief commissioner since October and the two commissioners on their way out--essentially it is a dysfunctional commission--is the secretariat reporting directly to the minister? How many discussions have you had directly with Minister Strahl? It would seem to me that a minister who has a dysfunctional commission might want to check in with the secretariat, with you in particular, and ask, “How's it going? What can we do?” This is the system of ministerial responsibility we have in this country. Please tell me that he has met with you on various occasions to see what can be done to expedite fixing the lacuna that exists here.

[Aideen Nabigon]

Minister Strahl has actually been very respectful of the need for independence. The secretariat has been fine. We've been talking with the department as need be. Caroline Davis, who reported before me, has been very, very helpful in providing us with whatever support we need in getting up and running. No, I haven't had discussions with Minister Strahl, nor have I really felt the need to. I have no doubt that if I did, he would take my call. We've dealt with the department; we have not dealt with Minister Strahl.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

In short, you're really not reporting to anyone.

[Aideen Nabigon]

The commissioners are still there. To be honest, no, I don't have a reporting relationship with the commissioners.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We'll go to Mr. Rickford.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

First of all, thank you, Mr. Chair, and to the witnesses for coming here today.

I have one point and one question.

I want to echo the sentiments of my colleagues on the locations. You've invited us to make some recommendations, but certainly I hope you'll be listening to survivors' wishes.

I have at least six qualified Indian residential schools in my riding, which is 321,000 square kilometres. Twenty-five of those communities have no access by road and a number of the survivors live in those communities.

I think that helps us focus on that, so I'm hoping we're not talking about a Montreal, Toronto, Winnipeg—well, Winnipeg perhaps—sort of national tour, and I'll put my pitch in for Kenora, certainly. That has to be kept in mind.

I did a cursory review and I have a question. Is there support integrated into the commission's mandate? When we went from the alternative dispute resolution process into the IAP, we started to see that there were some claims for student-on-student abuse. I'm concerned, and I want to bring it forth to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. We don't want this to be any more divisive.

There's funding available, with Health Canada's support and the Aboriginal Healing Foundation. I realize they're separate entities, but in my mind we should be thinking about this all together, because there are going to be things that are revealed by folks and they're going to need the support. That's just one example of something that's emerging under the new IAP that's particularly difficult.

[Aideen Nabigon]

Yes, and we are working closely with Health Canada, the Aboriginal Healing Foundation, and the Assembly of First Nations to make sure those supports are in place.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Okay.

[Aideen Nabigon]

There is a strategy being developed, a health support strategy.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Who is participating in that discussion?

[Aideen Nabigon]

The parties to the settlement agreement. The secretariat is involved. There are survivors at the table, and I would expect that the survivor committee, when it's up and running, will be very interested in that issue as well.

Again, doing limited outreach, I'm actually going to Sioux Lookout tomorrow to meet with a group of survivors.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

That's a great location for one of your national events.

[Aideen Nabigon]

Yes, I'm sure they'll tell me that too.

The visit is to get their feedback and hear what it is they want us to do in that regard. If there are not enough supports, we'll be talking to Health Canada. It's an extremely important part of the whole process to make sure the health supports are in place.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Rickford.

Now, we will move on to the members from the Bloc.

Mr. Lemay, you have three minutes.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Ms. Nabigon, have you read the Departmental Performance Report of March 31, 2008? If you have read it, I would like to refer you to page 15 of the French version. It reads as follows: “Settlement of Indian Residential Schools Canada is responsible for administering the independent assessment process...” and here it reads, listen carefully: “... implementing the Indian Residential Schools Truth and Reconciliation Commission.”

If I implement something, that means I supervise it. Do you see what I'm driving at? Do you follow me so far? Fine. So, if someone is not doing his work, someone else will have to take a look at things.

I have a question for you. What is the current role of the Honourable Frank Iacobucci—allow me to refer to him as the Honourable Justice Iacobucci, because when someone has sat on the Supreme Court, he deserves that title; he is a very good judge—on this extraordinary day of February 12? What is his role in the designation of the new commissioners?

[Aideen Nabigon]

Justice Iacobucci was appointed by the parties to chair a process for finding a resolution after Justice Harry LaForme quit as the chair. He is now tasked with chairing the process that will replace both the chair and the two commissioners who have resigned effective June 1.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I'm going to ask you a tough question. If you had an expectation of our committee, what would it be? How can we help you in this process so that things can move more quickly, so that things can improve? Is there anything that we can do to help you?

[Aideen Nabigon]

Thank you for that offer.

Again, we're waiting anxiously for a new commission to be appointed. Maybe that's a question you could ask the new commission when they're on board. We're continuing to do whatever we can to get ready for that new commission.

I appreciate the offer.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

So, we will tell the Conservatives to hurry up. It's not your job to do that, it's our job. We will mention this to the minister when he comes. You can count on us.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Lemay.

Mr. Albrecht, for three minutes.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just want to follow up a bit on this problem that we seem to have about the seven national events. I think it's important that we read--in context--what has been said. The seven national events are to promote awareness. There will be, in addition to that, community events as requested. I think it's important that we keep that in perspective for the public record: every person who has been affected will have the opportunity to tell their story in their community.

I want to come back to a point raised by Mr. Duncan, and that's regarding the possibility of people sharing their experience in a safe, respectful, culturally sensitive way, a private one-on-one or a public discussion. You mentioned that one of the possibilities might be sharing in a group of up to 500 people.

Are there any restrictions placed on those who will be sharing their stories in terms of specifically naming people who might not have the possibility to defend themselves? Possibly they're deceased. Possibly they're in another area of the country. That's one of my concerns.

You probably have something in place for that, but I'd like to hear you address that.

[Aideen Nabigon]

To clarify, what I said was that I've heard survivors talk in front of gatherings of 500. At the national events, we hope to have thousands.

Just on that point, we'll make sure that people who are speaking, who are telling their stories, will be prepared in advance. The settlement agreement does say that people cannot be named, although I can't remember exactly what it says.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Allegations cannot be raised without....